S6E15: Still Hot After Kids: Keeping the Spark Alive in Midlife

Welcome to the Besties with Breasties podcast.

I'm Beth Wilmes, author, speaker, and founder of a human investment organization otherwise known as a nonprofit called Faith Through Fire.

Our mission is to reduce the fear.

And anxiety breast cancer patients feel and replace it with hope and a path toward thriving.

I'm Jess, a mom of two, former college soccer player, elementary PE teacher and fitness enthusiast.

I was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer just before my 40th birthday.

And I'm Jamie, researcher, retired professional boxer and breast cancer survivor who keeps life busy and joyful with a funny farm of animals, a loving family, and a big heart to serve others.

This podcast is about our experiences with.

Breast cancer and life after as young survivors and moms.

Okay.

Hey, how's it going?

Yes, it's going.

It's going.

So we have an interview today that I. I kind of stalked them a little bit so that they come on.

I'm really excited about it.

We're going to sit down with Chris and Jodi Gibbs, which are the founders of Still Hot After Kids.

Have you heard of Still Hot After Kids?

I have not.

Okay.

You know, I'm not a big social media person.

No, you aren't.

Like, most of the time you're like, did I see, did you see this?

And I'm like, no, no, you're never good.

But I have not seen it.

But I somehow stumbled across their channel called Still Hot After Kids, and it caught my eye because they're a middle aged couple and.

And their whole platform is about helping marriages in midlife, which I didn't even know was a thing until I hit 45.

Until you got to midlife?

Until I got to midlife.

35, No problem.

Smooth sailing.

45.

I'm like, oh, this is what everybody's talking about.

Anyway, basically, they do relationship coaching.

They've been married over 30 years, their parents to four girls, their grandparents, their business partners.

But they've kind of been there, done that.

And so their whole platform is about helping other couples navigate midlife so that you can keep your communication intact and, and just kind of thrive instead of just survive, which is what I feel like midlife sometimes feels like.

Right.

I mean, when you think about all the challenges, like for us, for example, we've already been through breast cancer as young moms.

You know, you've got kids, you're raising, you're managing households, you have aging parents, it's a lot.

It is.

It starts to kind of compound and you start to lose yourself.

I feel like a little bit as a couple.

Right.

I feel Like, I'm there before you are, so I feel you're being a little.

I'm not there, but sure.

Well, no, I do think.

I definitely think there's something to this because I just keep hearing women talk about it.

Yeah.

I mean, over and over, but in.

The very same specific time frame.

Yes.

So I think it's just.

And it's a lot of times people that have been in the same relationship for many years, I kind of feel like you kind of get to this place where it's like you have to re.

Calibrate.

Yes.

Yeah, I like that word.

Calibrate.

Yeah.

So we're going to talk to Jodi and Chris about their own marriage and experiences.

Then we'll discuss some of their views.

On modern marriage, and we'll probably close with what they think it takes to truly keep your marriage going strong.

But before we talk to them, let's hear from our first sponsor.

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So welcome.

Thanks for being here today.

Yeah, thanks for having us.

We're excited.

Yeah.

Okay.

So obviously, we know now that you spend your mornings in the hot tub when it's beautiful outside.

That first morning sunlight is.

We do a lot of biohacking, and that is beneficial.

Well, tell me, have you guys both.

Okay, so you're biohackers.

Is this a hobby that you guys decided to do together, or.

I mean, have you both been doing this on your own?

And then what came first, chicken or egg?

Our health.

Like, we both just felt terrible.

We are.

I Mean, we're middle age and hormones were hitting us.

Weight just that whole midlife crisis hit us and we decided we got to.

It really hit Chris about 15 years ago, ended up in the emergency room and ICU.

So we're like, all right, we got to change our life.

So we've been biohacking and, and that.

My blood pressure started to go up and I didn't necessarily want to be on blood pressure medicine.

So I'm like, you know what?

I'm gonna try anything, everything that I can to see if I can get this under control.

And of course, that opened up a whole world that I didn't know existed.

And so I'm open to trying a lot of things.

And some things have worked and it's.

Helped rekindle our relationship and energy with each other.

So I love that.

Yeah.

Did.

How old were you, Chris, when you had those health problems?

You said 15 years ago, do you mind aging yourself?

It was just after my 40th birthday, I started to have anxiety problems, I started to have panic attacks, just things that had never happened to me before.

And I was like, freaking out.

And, you know, they, of course doctors just kind of want to put, put me on meds, like antidepressants, this and that.

And I just didn't like it.

I didn't like the side effects from it all.

And I just thought, there's got to be a better way.

And that's when I joined a boot camp.

And the boot camp really is what changed.

I would say that changed my life more than anything else.

I was always an athlete growing up, but I had quit doing all that.

But that boot camp just kicked me into another world.

And I've been exercising pretty much at least five days a week ever since.

So you had always exercise?

Because I feel like a lot of men who.

And your story's not unique.

I feel like a lot of middle aged women and men are dealing with health concerns that they never saw before, and then it, like you said, kind of freaks them out.

So were you physically active before or did you have to kind of start from scratch again?

Well, I, I was, I had a physical job.

You know, my job was physical, but no, I wasn't doing any.

You know, I'd quit.

Quit sports altogether, quit mountain biking, raising kids.

You know, the time factor.

You just, you just came home, spent what time you had left with your kids, went to work, grinded out, and you didn't eat well, you know, I was eating gas station food and too many sweets and all of that, but I Was just doing the best that I knew at the time.

And my body finally just said, oh, I think I'm done doing this.

Yep.

And he did.

I mean, 60, 70 hour weeks.

We had four kids, five and under.

I mean, we were trying to keep our head above water and we didn't do very well.

So let me ask you this, Jodi.

When he was going through this, did you notice the change in him, both physically and emotionally?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

You could see it coming.

But in his eye, he was, he was providing.

He was, you know, feeding us, giving us a good home.

And I, I was pretty much home with the girls as much as I could.

And then I got into real estate and to try to help out, see if we could get him home.

It was funny how in my mind I thought I was the father and the husband of the year, and the harder I worked, the better husband I was being.

But I didn't realize that now looking back, I, I wasn't around.

I wasn't there.

And left Jodi to do a lot of the things on her own and then destroyed part of my health in, in the process.

We're still paying for to this day.

Yeah, yeah, it's unfortunate.

Like, we, we see that and, you know, we're obviously breast cancer survivors, and it's like once you have a catastrophic health event like that, you never fully recover.

You do the best you can, you know, with what remains, and you, you move forward, but it's, it's always there.

The carnage is always there, you know, so it's, it's hard.

Yes.

And it's hard on the spouse.

That's, you know, it was hard on me because on he didn't work Sundays and that was our only day yet, he was done.

So he was in bed and so he was never home.

And then I felt like the caretaker for him and the caretaker for the kids.

It was just a, A vicious cycle and our connection was gone and, and I despised him for it.

And yet I felt bad.

It was just, it was a hard, hard stage of life.

How long did that season last?

Because we are part of a relationship series right now in the podcast, and this is a theme that we're seeing over and over and over again with middle aged couples who had historically always been happy and built a life together, hit this massive wall.

And it's the same story.

The man's kind of depleted.

He's providing, you know, from a financial standpoint, but he's not mentally there.

He's physically driving himself into the ground.

The, the wife feels Abandoned emotionally, she doesn't feel safe psychologically, and then she feels depleted because she's running everything else.

And it's like these couples are finding themselves in this position and it's just like, I'm seeing it go one way or another.

It's either the couple completely breaks down, all communication ceases, people go their own way and they get divorced, or something changes.

Because both couple, like, both people in the couple are like, I.

This is unsustainable.

Like, something has to change.

This is unacceptable.

So, I mean, obviously you guys made this decision, right?

Like, this can't stand.

You have to do something.

What was that pivotal moment?

It was a big pivotal moment because we ended up selling our house, build.

A dream home on my.

Bought some land with my dad, developed it.

So we was on an acre of land, built this beautiful dream home, and we had to make this heart wrenching decision.

And we sold our house and downsized, which we thought maybe he could.

And he changed companies, which he was helpful.

And yeah, one day, you know, I was driving home and a different employer called me.

And he didn't say, I'm looking for somebody to come to work.

He said, I was just checking to see if you were happy.

And that was the magic words because I sat there and I thought, I'm not happy.

And so we made a major shift.

We sold the house, changed jobs.

I got a much less stressful job.

He went from three jobs to one job.

One job.

And during the sale of our house, we learned about real estate, which then triggered Jody to look into that.

And Jody got into real estate, started selling real estate, and his health still wasn't there.

We were still dealing with terrible health issues.

His family, all of his aunts and uncles and I think a couple cousins have Ms. Now.

And so that was our big concern.

He was having some of those symptoms.

And I thought, I got to do something because I'm going to be the sole provider here.

And so I've got to.

We've got to make a change.

So I ended up getting into real estate, and I made more money than he did working.

You know, he still worked about 50 hours a week.

And we made another pivotal decision in the 2009, which was the economy, was in the tank to quit his job and join me with real estate.

And everybody thought we had lost our mind and it was a struggle, but we didn't look back.

We moved forward and we did it.

And we do still sell real estate.

How many times do you guys think fear keeps people stuck in this perpetual cycle?

Of unhappiness all the time.

Yeah, we see it.

We see it all the time with our.

With our.

Our couples that we work.

My.

My own family sometimes deals with it and fear.

Fear is a.

It's a vicious thing.

It definitely keeps you from doing a lot of things.

And, you know, the fear of failing.

I mean, failing isn't necessarily terrible if.

If you can recover from it and learn from it.

And that's.

That's how I've always.

You know, the thing is, I've always had been born with faith that things will work.

And.

And Jody's.

I struggle with that.

She struggles.

So we.

We kind of balance each other out in that aspect, but I've just always had this natural faith that things will be fine.

And we do have a faith background.

We do have a religious background.

We are a religious couple.

So, you know, with faith and prayer, we have both been able to get through things together.

Yeah, I have a lot of girlfriends right now who are midlife, who are grinding.

I mean, they're making a lot of money.

They're.

If they're not the breadwinners, they're.

They're right there with their husbands, and they are depleted and exhausted and tired, and they want to quit.

And the thing that they say is, I can't.

And I'm like, no, you can.

I know, because I did it.

I left the corporate grind.

I went from making, you know, six figures to making no money overnight.

I know you can do it because I've done it.

It's just going to be very different.

And it's not going to be easy at first, but when you're a happier person and you're doing what feeds your soul, the other stuff comes, you know, it comes later.

Do you guys agree with that?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

When we got rid of some of our stuff, I would call it stuff, I realized, you know, the truth is, I have lots of friends that they have all kinds of stuff, but they never really use any of it.

And their hobbies.

They have too many hobbies.

You can only enjoy so many things in life.

And so we decided to focus on those things that we enjoy and get rid of all the other.

The other stuff.

Were you guys ever at a point where you thought the relationship wasn't going to make it, or was it always like, no, we're committed.

We love each other.

We just got to make a change?

Well, we got to that point.

We really.

I mean, we never tried to never talk about divorce.

You don't ever want to put that word out there, because I Think it does put an energy.

So we didn't.

But yeah, there was a point where I didn't.

I mean we've done counseling, we've done therapy, we've done coaching.

We've done a lot of things to, to keep it together.

I didn't know this was that way because I never felt that.

But I didn't realize that it was that hard on Jody during that time.

And so for me, no, I never got, I never felt like it was divorce.

But I learned later how close it was with the way Jody felt and.

Around to fill it.

Yeah, I think that's really hurtful for men too.

You know, I, I, I do think there's value in a wife being very direct.

I'm not.

First of all, I've noticed just in my own marriage, it's easy for me to tell my husband Gary, like I'm not happy.

I'm not happy with the way things are going.

I don't feel good about this.

I feel like something needs to change.

I've noticed for men or for Gary in particular, it's very difficult for him to say he's unhappy too.

He, he tries to justify, he's like, well, this is just what it's like mid life and you know, the kids are really stressful right now.

And yeah, I'm not happy at work, but you know, it's a lot of we're so blessed, right?

But I'm grateful because we have this, this and this.

And I'm like, well, being grateful is fine.

Of course we're grateful, you know, and we're both faith based too.

So, you know, we, we do feel blessed in a lot of ways.

But I, I find it interesting that sometimes, you know, then when the husbands find out that the wives are so deeply unhappy, I think it's very hurtful to them because they're not thinking like,.

Oh, she's, they're doing all these things right, Working, they're trying to provide well.

And also I wonder if we conflate love with, you know, you can love somebody, but if it's not working, it's not working.

Yes.

And I think a husband and a man, he, I mean Chris truly and I now stepping but you know, we're how many years from there and looking back, hindsight's always 20 20.

He did the best that he could.

And in his mind he was an amazing husband, he was an amazing provider and he really was, but not in the sense that I needed as a wife and a mother of four kids, five and under.

When we had Him.

I had a set of twins in there, so there was just, boom.

We were struggling.

I was struggling, and I had no.

No support.

And, you know, my mom is there, but she's older, and she was working.

She could only.

And I have no sisters, so there really wasn't a lot of support.

But him, so it was very hard.

I want to jump into, like, the issues that modern marriages face today, because I do think it's different than it used to be.

But before we do that, you guys want to do Boobs in the News?

Yes.

Let's do it.

All right.

Boobs in the News is a fun segment where we read funny tweets by.

Real people or ridiculous news stories.

Bibs in the news.

Bibs in the news.

BS in the news.

Are you ready for this?

I am.

This one's kind of just, like.

I don't know.

So Uber Lost and Found Index.

Okay.

So I saw this.

Did you see this?

Yeah.

I mean, there's some crazy items.

Yeah.

Uber basically posts a list every year of the most random items.

So it's their 10th annual lost and Found Index, which is an accounting of the most common and unusual items left behind by passengers.

Okay, so let's.

What are some of the crazy ones?

I don't think they're that crazy.

I mean, there were dentures with only two teeth.

I think they call that a bridge.

I don't know that they're dentures if it's just, like, two teeth.

Okay.

Because it would be just, like, two teeth.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I don't know.

But, like, how do you lose that?

I guess you take it out of your mind.

I don't know.

Somebody left breast milk back there, which.

That sucks.

That's like liquid gold.

Right.

Human hair, which today, in today's world, I don't feel like that's a weird thing because everybody's got weaves and extension extensions.

This one's a little random.

A Donny Osmond group picture.

Like, Donnie and Marie Aspen are from, like, the 70s.

Yeah.

An ankle monitor.

I don't know how somebody got that.

Off or how they even got out of their house.

420 Donuts, which I was like, how do you know that they're pot donuts unless you eat them?

Oh, my goodness.

Oh.

Or maybe that's the name of them.

420 Donut.

I. I actually read this article, and I thought it was 420, like, donuts.

I went to pot, and you're, like, four.

I was like.

For, like, mini, like, little donut holes.

Well, now I'm questioning it.

I know.

420 The number.

Or is it 420, like the pot.

Pot donuts.

I don't know.

This might be me, like, being in.

A bubble, like, not.

Not thinking about it that way.

Yeah.

I immediately went to pot donuts, George Washington hospital discharge papers.

I mean, who cares about that?

A sack of marbles.

Who plays marbles anymore?

Do you.

Do you shoot some marbles?

You want to shoot marbles after this podcast, Jess.

Oh, that's so random.

A gold mouth grill.

Oh, my goodness.

Do people still wear grills?

Yeah, I think so.

If you're not a rapper.

I. I mean, if you're a rapper, you.

You do.

Other bizarre items were a new mini fridge, one red bottom Louis Vuitton heel, which.

Dear Lord, that's an expensive shoe.

Yeah.

And how do you walk out with one?

One.

I mean, I feel like that's a drunken escapade right there.

Or maybe she was, like, with a man and she just couldn't help herself.

I don't know.

A live fish, a mannequin, two trees, a cape with the Statue of Liberty on it.

I would wear that.

I could see that being.

Have you seen.

Have you seen those, like, reels where people, like, just.

They just wear goofy things or do, like.

Have you seen the.

The wand where you put your credit card in it and then like, when you go to pay something, you're, like, tapping your wand on the.

On the terminal.

No, that sounds fun.

It's fun.

It's like.

It cracks me up because the people working are just like, what?

That sounds like a way to bring joy back into your body.

That's what I'm saying.

Something funny to, like, lighten it up.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

So, like, I might wear a cape for a day just to see people's responses.

That would be funny.

Maybe we should, like, try this.

Go on, like a.

Like, just outing and just see.

Challenge ourselves to do, like, different fun spontaneity.

Like, I actually kind of.

Yeah, that would be fun.

Here's a textured picture with a rhinestoned picture of Jesus.

Oh, okay.

A welding helmet.

A toboggan.

Isn't it toboggan huge.

Yeah.

Isn't that a sled?

Yeah.

Anyway, yeah, I don't know who the boobs are.

I guess the people that left them, but there you go.

Bibs in the news.

Bibs in the news.

Okay, so we're back.

I. I want to get your guys perspective on marriage today.

There's a lot of Things that we deal with in modern society that I feel like weren't an issue back in the day.

What are you guys seeing as coaches in marriages?

I mean, we've touched on some of it, but what is the prevalent theme?

I think the big thing I see is pretty much everybody now has to be a two income family, most everybody.

And it's changed the dynamics of what a mother is and raising kids.

And it's just financially, I think it's a little more stressful.

And then of course, I think there's the keeping up with the Joneses that we see a lot of that people, you know, you mentioned with your friend.

I think people think I have to keep going.

I have to keep this image and I have to have this stuff that's going to make me happy.

But my big take on it is lack of communication.

Like, I deal with a lot of women that are, you know, I'm going through menopause, dealing with all the hormones.

And I talk to these women and husbands and they're like, well, I don't know, I have no idea.

I'm like, well, do you not communicate?

Do you not talk about how your, what your body's doing, how you're feeling?

And they don't, they don't talk about it.

You think the longer you're together, the better your communication skills would be?

I know my husband and I, we, we met when I was 17 years old.

And we've, we've always said we just felt really fortunate because, and I, we joke about it now because this last year was really hard for us and we had to work through some things and we're like, well, we were, we had a great streak, right.

20 Years of not feeling like we had much problems in our marriage and then we had a really hard year.

And I do think that our communication skills had lapsed and we had to really figure out for ourselves, like, what were we doing that was detrimental?

And it was as simple as when we would get frustrated with each other or angry with each other.

Both of us were retreating to separate corners and we called it giving each other space.

But we wouldn't come back later to discuss it.

We would just let it go.

Yeah.

And I think the way you approach it and the way you, you know, if you approach a spouse and it's you, you, you, you, you, their walls are going to go up immediately.

But if you approach them as I feel and I, you know, put it back onto you, it changes the dynamics quite a bit.

What I have learned in, from my perspective is we underestimate what we're eating.

Number one, we don't eat very well.

And two, I think we need to take more responsibility for ourselves.

And a lot of men just let it go.

They don't think that there's anything they can do.

And you'll see them just slowly fade, like a light bulb just slowly dimming.

And then one day, they realize what has happened.

And that's kind of what I went through.

But I feel like if you can take responsibility and say, what can I do?

And there's so much that you can try, and that's all you can do at that point.

I always tell the people we coach, if you're both trying, that's all you can do.

And that's what you owe to yourself and you owe to your spouse, is that you just give it your best shot.

And that seems to work for Jodi.

And I want to kind of talk about that.

What do you guys think it takes to kind of recapture that magic once you're in that slump?

You guys have kind of mentioned you guys came out of the hot tub together, together first thing in the morning.

You know, you kind of gotten into biohacking together.

Is it about finding mutual interests outside of managing the household and the kids?

Like, what do you think are some steps that people can take?

You know, communication is key, obviously.

What is it all about?

Just increased date nights, or does it have to go beyond that?

I think it's gotta go beyond that, but definitely time together.

And, you know, we're fortunate enough to where we both.

We work together.

Like, we share the same desk.

We look across at each other, so we are so blessed to be able to spend that time together.

But I think you need to find a hobby that you both enjoy and that creates energy.

What's crazy is we've got couples that they haven't been on a date without the kids for years.

And I just want to say, why do you think you're having problems then?

You have got to spend some time together and connect.

Not with logistics, not talking about bills or the house or whatever, but just each other.

Yeah.

I think that's kind of the encouragement.

Right?

Is that it?

It's a little bit scary if you find yourself out to dinner with your significant other and you're struggling for, like, to keep the conversation going.

Right.

Or we only talk about the kids or schedules.

It's like, that's where people find themselves, and they're like.

But it's.

There's an opportunity here, like you said, to rediscover each other and to start having a little bit more fun.

You know, I feel like as adults, we're just so bad at having fun, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

We've trained ourselves to feel a little bit guilty about that.

And even this morning, getting in the hot tub, Jody wanted to get up and get the lawn mowed, and we had stuff to do, and we had this call coming, and I thought, no, let's just go spend a little bit of time in the hot tub.

And she's like, okay, it's hard for me.

I am a red personality.

I do suffer from ocd.

Like, I'm very task oriented.

I just get crap done and I have to reel myself in and, you know, stop for a minute, take some time.

And our morning routine, normally we're at the gym, you know, first thing in the morning.

This morning we bypassed it because we've got a full, full day, but normally we hit the gym and.

And that resets me.

My gym is my reset.

And I found that and have just.

And I've.

I've loved it.

It's changed my life.

And we've just built these habits that we just do these certain things.

And we felt like the routine has become very important.

And I think that's important for a lot of people to feel, you know, organized or to feel fulfilled is you.

You get yourself a routine if you can, and little rituals.

And that's what Jody and I have done.

We have these little things that we.

Do, and I mean, down to even making the bed together.

I mean, it's.

I think people think we're crazy.

And.

And sometimes we'll be places and we'll look at each other.

We're like, are we weird?

Which I think we are.

But we.

We have cultivated an awesome relationship.

And I'm so excited for this, our next 10, 15 years together.

I do think there's something to that.

You know, something that when Gary and I were going through this rough year, we.

This is.

It's weird.

It's like making the bed together.

But now when I need to run to the store to get the groceries for dinner that night, I'll be like, do you want to go with me?

And, you know, when we were in the slump, he would have been like, not really.

I'm exhausted.

I'm going to just sit here on the couch and scroll my phone while you go do that.

And now he's like, yeah, I'll go with you.

Just those little, you know, going on these chores together, it's like instead of doing them on your own, it's like shared ownership, right?

It's not on me to get the groceries by myself and he can keep me company and we can have a fun time doing it and it's just more fun together.

And so I think it's like you don't notice those habits change until you do.

And then it's reincorporating that, that togetherness again.

And it does, it does make a difference.

It seems like such a small thing, but it really does change the dynamic.

It does.

And that's to try to get, you know, people to see that just you guys going to get groceries.

You know, you get in the car, reach over, touch his leg, tickle his neck, touch that, that little bit of non sexual touch.

When you get to the grocery store, Chris always pushes the car and I hold onto his arm and, and you know, we, we touch every chance we get.

Like we're sitting here right now and he's rubbing my leg.

I think we touch all the time.

Compliments go for me.

Compliments are huge.

When Jody tells me that I look nice or thank you for doing this or doing that, we run into people that I don't need to say thank you for that.

That's just what they should do.

And I'm like, no, I don't believe that.

I think those little affirmations can go a long way.

The other day she told me that I looked at good in this outfit and I think I want to wear that now all the time because it meant a lot and we've learned to do that for each other and we encourage that with others.

I love that and I want to, I want to end where people can find you guys.

But before we do that, let's hear from our second sponsor.

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All right, just wrapping up, guys.

I want people to be able to find you.

So explain.

I came across you guys on Facebook.

Still hot after kids.

But where can people find you and get in touch if they, if they want your help?

I'm.

We're on TikTok, Instagram and Facebook and it's.

They're all still hot after kids.

Email, still Hot after kids gmail dot com.

I mean we're reach out and I do not, I don't use many chat or anything like that.

I will personally which I spend a lot of time and sometimes once in a while they'll get missed.

But we personally respond to everyone.

There's no automation.

Yep.

I try to get back to everybody but it's.

You can't AI this.

You can't automatic it.

It needs.

It's personal and people are, are hurting and I just, I'm excited.

I just want to help couples.

I, I would love, I would love to be able to give couples a sense of what we feel now.

Was it always this way?

No.

And we've done a lot of work and it's been well worth it.

Well, I was going to say, I think that's kind of the exciting part is that you guys have not always been this way.

It's hard to take advice from somebody who's never been in the trenches.

Right, Right.

It's different when you're saying, I know there's a better way because I've been there.

Yep.

Wonderful.

Still hot after kids.

Chris and Jodi Gibbs, thank you so much for being on today.

Thank you.

It was a pleasure.

Until next time.

Yeah.

Thank you for being a listener of the Besties with Breasties podcast.

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