S6E12: "Less Pity, More Power": A Conversation About Real Survivorship

Welcome to the Besties With Breasties podcast.

I'm Beth Wilmes, author, speaker, and founder of a human investment organization otherwise known as a nonprofit called Faith Through Fire.

Our mission is to reduce the fear and anxiety breast cancer patients feel and replace it with hope and a path toward thriving.

I'm Jess, a mom of two, former.

College soccer player, elementary PE teacher, and fitness enthusiast.

I was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer just before my 40th birthday.

And I'm Jamie, researcher, retired professional boxer and breast cancer survivor who keeps life busy and joyful with a funny farm of animals, a loving family, and a big heart to serve others.

This podcast is about our experiences with.

Breast cancer and life after as young survivors and moms.

Hey, Jamie.

Hey, friend.

How are you doing?

I'm great.

How are you?

It's Friday, man.

I'm always.

And you're caffeinated.

I'm caffeinated.

I've got my coffee.

I'm caffeinated.

It's Friday.

Life is good.

The weather's beautiful outside.

I'm hoping to get my butt outdoors for a walk.

I don't know if it's going to happen.

I know.

Me too.

Let's hold each other accountable.

There you go.

We'll send each other a text.

Are you walking?

Get your butt out the door.

Perfect.

Well, today we've got two guests joining us.

And the whole reason I found out about these ladies was because one of our Faith Through Fire members asked me if I had heard of their podcast called Pink Power Hour, and I hadn't.

And so that led me on a little discovery of who they were and what they were up to.

And the podcast is fairly new, but what I took away from it was just that these two women are very much like us, and the fact that they want to make breast cancer relatable or relational, I guess, and not really shy away from what survivorship is like.

And so that felt very in keeping with our mission and kind of how we view survivorship.

So I really wanted to talk to them, so I reached out and said, hey, would you be willing to come on?

And to my delight, they said yes.

That's awesome.

Podcasters podcasting together.

I know.

Who would have thought?

So the founders are Amy Brace and Jenna Sartorius, and they're both survivors, thrivers who met through a documentary and built a podcast, which I think evolved into their foundation.

I don't know what came first, the foundation or the podcast.

So that's something I wanna.

I wanna ask them about.

But Jenna Sartorius is a mom of Two boys.

She married her college sweetheart.

She calls herself a proud member of the Too Many MRIs club, which I think is funny.

So her life was flipped upside down after her stage 3 breast cancer metastasized to her brain.

And I'm really interested in talking to her because she to walk away from her career in healthcare and financial advocacy to focus on living, not just surviving, which immediately caught my attention.

So these days, she says she's mastering the art of household engineering, and she mentors newly diagnosed women, and she laughs through the chaos.

And then Amy Brace is a seasoned entrepreneur, a wellness advocate, a former medical professional with a passion for helping people and small businesses thrive.

So she.

She also is a survivor.

She's known for her warmth, humor, and practical wisdom.

And so she is a speaker and advocate for survivorship.

So I just think that they're going to be a really dynamic duo.

I mean, I can't wait.

Yeah.

So today we're going to talk about.

How they met, what they think about how survivorship is perceived versus reality, and.

Then the work they do together to bring validation and empowerment to breast cancer survivors.

Yep.

But before we dive in with them, let's hear from our first sponsor.

Are you feeling scared, overwhelmed, or lost post treatment?

Do you want to reclaim your life and thrive even better than before?

Breast cancer?

Faith Thru Fire's Survivorship Bootcamp is designed for breast cancer survivors who are committed to living their fullest lives.

If you're ready to leap forward, seize personal growth, and redefine your journey, this boot camp will provide the path you might benefit from.

Our boot camp.

The excitement of completing treatment has worn off, leaving you feeling unsure about your future.

You feel confused by your new post cancer identity and struggle to accept your new normal.

You want to enjoy life again, but feel stuck in a cycle of negative emotions.

You feel disconnected from yourself, others, or God.

Our boot camp offers a structured roadmap that delves deep into four key areas crucial for post cancer recovery and thriving.

Understanding trauma, cultivating a fighting spirit, managing anxiety and intrusive thoughts, and redefining and reshaping your identity so you can rediscover your joy and purpose in life.

You can participate by visiting faiththroughfire.org survivorship bootcamp.

All right, ladies, welcome to the show.

Thanks for being on.

Thank you for having us.

Yeah, we're very excited.

Yeah, of course.

Well, you know, I heard about you through one of our members, and so when I started looking at your foundation and your podcast, it felt very familiar in terms of your guys's approach to cancer.

So explain for everybody listening how you two met.

So we both participated in a breast cancer documentary that was filmed here in the Twin Twin Cities where we both live.

So we met on the day that the group, those group of women, it was called one in eight, but there were 10 of us that they recorded, interviewed, and you know, where they produced a documentary.

So we all got together at Amy's Cupcake Shop, which is the Amy that we're talking with.

Amy Bryce, my co host and co founder.

And I said in the text message, I felt like such an idiot.

I was like, well, it says, Amy's Cupcake Shop is closed on Sundays.

And she's like, well, I'm Amy and.

I have the key.

And I have the key.

So anyways, you show up and, you know, we hit it off through that whole process and we're just, you know, starting to text more and more.

And then after the documentary, we're like, we both want to do something more.

I said, let's try writing a book.

Amy said, hell no.

And so then we said, let's try our hand at a podcast.

And you know, our families still come first and our self care and that kind of stuff.

Then I'm all in.

Well, that's how we met.

Okay, well, before you guys met through the documentary, had you been.

How long were you guys into survivorship when.

When you did that?

Yeah.

So go ahead, Amy, you start.

Yeah.

So I was diagnosed in October, October 2nd of 2022.

And so let's see.

And then I finished treatment kind of November of 23.

So it was 2ish years.

Two years when you did the documentary post?

Yeah, yeah.

Actually the week.

The week of when we filmed the documentary, I just had a fat grafting surgery because I had reconstruction that failed horribly for me, so I had to get my expanders out.

And so I was trying to do fat grafting because the left side of my chest is like super stuck.

And I don't know why, but I.

Well, I know why.

Because I been competitive all my life.

So obviously the more surgeries that I have, the better I'm going to get a recovery.

So that was my mentality.

And everyone's like, you're really gonna have surgery like the week of the documentary?

I was like, yeah, I've had so many surgeries already.

Like, I should be so good by then.

Yeah.

And not that at all.

Yeah, it did not go that way at all.

I was gonna say, I heard the fat grafting is incredibly painful.

Yeah, it really is.

I had it too.

It Is very painful.

Do you guys think it's worth doing?

Mine didn't work, so I don't think so, but.

Well, I had it to fill in my implants because I had a lot of rippling because I do have implants and they look a little better.

But in my mind I'm like, who cares?

Like who sees them other than my husband who doesn't care at all, you know, like.

So I don't know.

It was very painful.

And I will tell you, I thought I was like going to have a six pack abs and be, you know, all fit after they took all that fat out of my belly.

But I looked pregnant for months afterwards.

I think I'm going to be a little bit of a hater here, but I really feel like plastic surgeons kind of bullshit you on what they're able to do.

They totally did.

She didn't do a good job.

Like my surgeon did a good job, but it was like I had, I was not prepared for the recovery.

Yeah, it was, it was miserable.

It was like, yeah, I had a C section with my youngest son and it was similar.

It felt like that.

And I was like, that was not what I was signing up for.

Yeah, I don't, I don't think I would have done.

I would definitely not do it again.

I don't know if I would go back and do it.

I tend to feel like they over promise under deliver.

But yeah, totally.

You know what I mean?

Totally.

I'm like, I heard that from so many women.

Yeah.

I'm like, you can do better.

Yeah, yeah.

And I also think if they're reconstructing men's penises, like this would be a non issue.

Right.

Amen.

Or testicles.

Can you imagine some really fancy penises?

Oh, man, everybody would be looking fantastic.

Right?

Totally.

Jenna, how far out from like into survivorship were you when you did the documentary?

Yeah, that is a good question.

So I was originally diagnosed stage 3C, whatever the number is.

I can't remember very late stage three in 2021.

October of 2021.

And then I had a reoccurrence in my brain.

So actually a brain metastasis in November of 2022.

So I was probably about almost three years from my stage four diagnosis by the time we filmed the documentary.

So I'm currently three and a half plus years.

Okay, the brain surgery.

Yeah.

Okay.

Brain surgery meaning they took the tumor out, radiated, and now I take chemo.

Right.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

So you guys were kind of.

So you were three years out from your stage Four diagnosis.

And you were.

You were two years out when you guys met.

So it sounds like maybe you were in the processing phase when you guys did that documentary.

Totally, totally.

Do you think that's where you are when you decide to do that?

Because I feel like those projects, like, really take hold when you're trying to come to terms with everything that's happened to you.

Yeah, absolutely.

And there were so many people in the documentary that were in so such different stages.

Yes.

Like, some were in the thick of treatment, some were five, 10 years out.

And then we also had a Previvor, so she had the BRCA mutation and did a prophylactic double mastectomy.

So we were really trying to find people in all stages of the disease just to get that representation along with different ethnicities and just really representing just how vast breast cancer is.

Because it's like, I feel like it's so talked about.

Like, we're all aware of it, but I feel like so many people don't really understand how hard it is.

Yeah, yeah.

I think we kind of talked about that offline.

That society tends to kind of soften breast cancer.

Yeah.

And I think that's what a lot of us have a problem with.

The pink culture.

Right.

It's like a lucky survivors and pink.

And it's like there's a very dark underbelly.

Just kind of like what you said.

Right.

Like, there's brain surgeries and there's plastic surgery that goes wrong and.

And you don't really want to be like.

I think the thing that stood out to me about you, too, is, like, you're not negative.

Like, you're not just like, whoa, is me.

My life sucks.

Yeah.

Feel bad for me.

Everything about breast cancer is hard.

It's not that.

You know, it's also not easy, and it's not simple.

And there's this weird in between where I feel like people aren't really aware of what survivorships really like.

So.

Right.

What.

Why do you think society's uncomfortable with the reality?

Well, I think, yeah, because it's women, for one.

Yeah.

So many people just don't understand women's health in general.

And I think a lot of women don't understand women's health because, like, we're not taught really much about our hormones and what's actually happening in our body when we go through our period, when we go through menopause and all these other things.

And I just think it's such a disconnect of, well, your parts are inside.

So, like, I don't Know what's going on in there?

Like, yeah, you're.

The only thing sticking out is boobs.

And those are fun to play with, but, like, uterus, ovaries.

Everything else is so hidden.

Or making babies.

Yeah, it's just like the barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

It's just like, nope.

We.

I also wonder too, like, the emotional side, it's like, I think people underestimate.

It's kind of that joke, right?

Like, if the wife is happy, everybody's happy.

Or the mom's happy.

Everybody's happy.

Everybody's happy.

Yeah.

But it's like, if mom's not doing well, the whole family kind of suffers.

And that.

That emotional struggle, we don't really validate very often.

And so it's like, you know, quietly, women are kind of quiet, quitting life after a cancer diagnosis, and everybody's kind of looking the other way.

But what they're not thinking about are the ramifications for everybody who knows them.

You know, when that happened, when that happens, like, did you guys have that moment in survivorship where you felt like just kind of caving in and succumbing, or was it always.

I still feel that way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I still have to feel that way a lot because so much has changed for me on the outside.

Like when I went through menopause because my breast cancer is triple positive, so I went through menopause, I had a total hysterectomy, and I developed what's called androgenetic alopecia.

So it's hormone induced alopecia, or lack of hormones, really.

And so I have, like, male pattern baldness.

And so the top is super thin, the side is a little bit thicker, but it just looked like an old Italian grandpa with a really bad comb over, just like.

And so.

And I'm flat because my reconstruction failed terribly and all these other things.

So it's like, if it was kind of one or the other, I feel like it would be very different, but because nobody said, hey, your hair might not grow back.

I am having the most trouble with my hair, I think, because when people look at me, it's like, oh, she's sick.

Well, we talked about that offline that.

The interesting part about the two of you is that Jenna's the one living with stage four diagnosis, but looks Norma quote unquote normal.

And, Amy, you're the one that's struggling with the side effects from treatment, right?

And you look like you're still in treatment to some degree.

And so it's like, you know, Jenna, you can Kind of hide what's going on.

Which is good.

Both good and bad.

Right?

Both good and bad.

A lot of reason.

Yeah.

Right.

And then, Amy, you don't get to hide ever.

Right.

We're talking about just the vulnerability that that forces upon you when you may not want it.

Want to engage with that.

Right, exactly.

And I mean, I went to the grocery store this morning to pick up a couple things, and this sweet lady, she's, I don't know, probably in her 60s or something.

One of the cashiers, she looks at me and she goes, survivor.

And I was like, yep.

Yeah.

And she was so nice and it was really cute, but it's just like.

Yeah, it's a forced vulnerability that I didn't ask for.

And I don't always want so.

And even so, like, I don't want to wear a wig because it's not comfortable for me.

And that's my choice to not do that because I have hot flashes all the time and it's hot and it's whatever.

Yeah.

It's more complicated than just wearing a wig, you know, like people that just put a wig on.

Right.

Or it's just hair.

That's what I'm doing.

I made it about 24 hours trying to wig before I was like, this is for the birds.

I'm not doing this.

Jamie, did you ever wear a wig?

I forget.

No.

But I wanted to connect with Amy.

I have.

I'm also flat.

And I had pretty significant.

I ended up with scars that go all the way behind my lats.

People.

Yeah, it was a neat experience.

Yeah.

And people.

People are like, you know, we'll just put boobs on or just.

And it's like, one, it's uncomfortable on my scars.

And two, like, I have succumbed to wearing cotton and leisure wear because they don't make women's clothing to not have.

And, you know, women that are flat chested will say, well, I'm flat chested, too.

I'm like, this is different.

This is really the same.

Yeah.

So it is that forced vulnerability.

And I think, you know, back to your question, Beth, about society's discomfort.

There's a beauty standard that we overtly, unintentionally, challenge in the aftermath of cancer.

And it, you know, sometimes we want to talk about it and sometimes we don't.

So it's an interesting thing to navigate.

I had to go to an event last night, and it's like, I wore a really nice workout top under a sports coat because I didn't know what else to do.

I love that.

I love that you do what you got to do to do.

That's right.

And I guarantee you it looked cute.

I want to talk a little bit more about your guys podcast, but before we do that, let's do Boobs in the News.

Boobs in the News is a fun segment where we read funny tweets by real people or ridiculous news stories.

Boobs in the News.

Bibs in the news, baby.

Okay, are you ready for the title?

Yes.

Dr. Accidentally fixes a patient's irregular heartbeat by sticking a finger in a very unexpected place.

Where do you go for your news?

I mean, this is the stuff that really shapes my world.

This is.

All right, tell me more.

All right, so you've heard of atrial fibrillation?

I feel like a lot of people have it.

I feel like I know a lot of men with afib.

I don't know if that's more of a prevalent thing with men, but it just seems like the people I know that have it as men and the guy in this story is a man.

So it says, walking home one night, a 29 year old man from Queensland started experiencing heart palpitations at 140 beats per minute, which you're supposed to be at like 60 to 100 beats per minute.

So you can imagine that that's like super uncomfortable.

My dad actually had afib.

He had a surgery that kind of corrected it or at least corralled it.

But when your heart beats that fast, it's very unnerving.

Yeah.

Yes.

And it makes you faint and you don't feel good.

It's just.

And it really wears you out.

So when he was admitted to the hospital, the solution came as a bit of surprise.

In an area far south, further south than his heart, it says.

Yeah.

So it's not life threatening.

Usually when you have these heart palpitations, it can be brought on by lots of different things.

Lack of sleep, caffeine, alcohol, stress.

And sometimes they'll go away on their own.

But like for my dad, his wouldn't and so they'd have to like shock him back into orbit.

Have you known anybody that has this before?

An uncle.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I don't know if this is going to be a new standard of care, but before using standard procedures to restore regularity, the attending doctor wanted to check for gastrointestinal bleeding, which, it's funny to me that that's where he went next.

He's like, you know what, your heart's bothering you.

Like, let's check your pooper.

So I think a lot of men might be okay with afib after this.

I know, I know.

So he performed a routine digital rectal exam.

Okay.

And I love how this writer says this.

It says a finger up the butt was all it took to slow down the patient's heartbeat to 80 beats per minute and make the irregular heartbeat disappear.

It disappeared even months later, follow up, and never came back.

That guy got shot into permanent rhythm.

Oh, my God.

He had no history of heart problems or signs of a heart attack.

He had had an electrocardiogram that just said afib.

And I guess.

So I was like, what is afib again?

It means the heart's upper and lower chambers are out of sync, so they get less blood filling in the lower chambers and reaching the lungs, and I guess that causes the problem.

So who's the boob, do you think?

I have my opinion.

Okay, well, tell me, because I'm undecided.

I think that the writer is the boob, because I don't think this gentleman was excited about leaving.

I mean, he might have left with a good outcome, but, like, people are going to be like, well, how did it.

How did you get there?

I don't know that he wants to tell people.

I don't think they.

I don't think they gave his name.

Like, I think this is.

You know what I mean?

Like, well, for sure, but, like, can you.

I mean, as.

Yeah, you're right.

I'm just saying, like, I wonder how it came about.

Like, this guy probably, like, told his friend who's a writer for the New York Post, like, that this happened to him, and he's like, I am totally writing an article about this.

Oh, my gosh.

If five years from now, that's a standard of care.

It all started with this conversation.

I mean, you know, like, we talk a lot about the vagus nerve and the parasympathetic nervous system, and survivors are always in fight or flight, and I don't know, Jamie, should we start making therapeutic recommendations?

To stick your finger up your butt every time you're freaking out.

That would be a great reputation to start.

Faith through fire.

This is their motive.

This is their mode of healing regulation.

Oh, my God.

Imagine.

No.

There's your boob.

Okay, let's talk about your guys's podcast, because you mentioned that you decided to land on there.

You started with a book, and then you're like, what can we do that'll be, like, friendly to our family life?

And you landed on a podcast.

What kind of topics do you guys talk about?

I know, because I listened to Some of your episodes after the Survivor kind of pointed you to me, but what do you.

What have you guys been talking about with people?

Because your podcast is fairly new, correct?

Yeah, we just started in November recording November of this year, and we just finished recording our first season.

And then at the end of our first season, we kind of tacked on a Thriver miniseries.

So we're going to have eight different.

We had eight different guests that we recorded that are all stage four women to tell their story.

And then, gosh, we've had just such a variety of guests already.

Help me out here, Amy.

We've done an oncologist, an end of life specialist, a care manager, like a nurse navigator.

Yeah.

Like, financial planning.

What are you guys noticing with your guests?

Like, what is your overwhelming thoughts about, like, overall thoughts regarding, like, the landscape and where people are and.

And just generally, like, is there something that stands out to you from hosting this?

I've learned so much each episode, whether it's somebody telling their story or, like a medical professional saying things from their side, like how they come at things.

And Jenna's physician's assistant came on and chatted with us, and even afterwards, he's like, I talk to my patients differently now because of listening to your podcast.

Like, I understand more of where they're coming from and maybe how they're feeling.

And he's like, but I.

And even her oncologist, he's like, I want to be empathetic.

I want to put myself in their shoes and understand what they're going through.

He's like, but I'm also only human, and I haven't been through that, so I can't fully understand.

Yeah, I always think the most powerful stories that I come across is when a health care provider gets cancer because they thought.

They thought they knew.

And then inevitably they're like, I thought I knew, but I didn't.

And that was me.

I did CT scans for 10 years, and I was at the U of M hospital, and it's like a tertiary care hospital where so many people that come have cancer and everything like that.

And I was like, man, I really thought I knew what they were going through, and I did not.

Because if you think of how you feel when you're going for a CT scan, it's like, you're probably not in treatment that day.

You're not feeling like crap from chemo or everything else, and you're coming to find out if you still have cancer.

And I was just like, oh, my God.

Just the weight of that.

After going through it was really heavy that.

That was hard for me.

Yeah.

You really can't understand.

Right.

Unless you go through it.

But even for our second season, we have in cue a woman who happens to be my son.

Our kids are in the same kindergarten class, but she just went through treatment this school year, and she's a pediatric oncologist, so just, like, getting her feedback or, you know, side of the experiences, I. I'm fascinated to see what she's going to tell us.

Yeah.

And how many episodes do you guys release at a time for Pink?

Okay, so the podcast is called Pink Pink Power Hour.

I want to make sure that we say it so that people know how to find you guys, and we'll emphasize that at the end.

But, like, for us at Besties with Breasties, we only release two per month, and that's just because we're at capacity.

Yeah.

How often are you guys releasing?

We do a weekly episode, but we do a season, if you will.

So they will be released between October and June.

Ish.

Depending on how many guests and what we can sneak in.

But we've been pretty firm and keeping summers off for time with our kids.

Because we both have kids.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So this season we did 28, and next season we're gonna start a little sooner.

So obviously we want to be posting during Breast Cancer Awareness month and stuff like that.

So we're going to start recording in September instead of recording in late October like we did last year.

So around 30ish episodes and have a couple specials put in there.

We're doing Making Strides at the Mall of America in October, and we're going to do a live podcast from that.

So just kind of leaving room for.

People want us to podcast from an event or something like that.

It's fun.

But one of the things you guys say is less pity, more power.

Yeah, that's our tagline.

Yeah.

Which I think is really interesting because we're talking about forced vulnerability and being authentic to who you are.

But at the same time, like, the thing that we all hate is when people feel sorry for us.

It's just gross.

Yeah.

You know the sad eyes.

Yes.

And the head tilt.

Oh, I know.

It's.

I really feel like people need to go back to school on how to pretend to be, like, pitying.

Right.

I feel like they're really bad at it.

Yeah.

And to be honest, I've just got tired of it, so I just say, don't do that, please.

Like, do you say that?

That doesn't.

Yeah.

Y. I think I said that to Amy.

When I first the women, I was like, you of all women should not be doing that.

Right?

Yeah.

I was like, you literally just told me you have a hole in your brain.

Like, that's crazy.

And I know the story behind that.

The worst part is I do it too.

I can't.

It's.

It is ingrained in us.

We all do it.

We all do it.

Jamie and I just did a bootcamp, and it was so interesting because women were kind of sharing their experiences, and, you know, when people say things to them and.

And some of the things, like, people say, first of all, it's very hard because, like, one woman's like, oh, my gosh, if one more person told me I had a great shaped head and it upset her.

But I'm like, but I remember when I was bald, when somebody said that to me, I was like, oh, that's good.

I'm glad to know that I got.

That going for me.

Right?

You know what I mean?

Like, so it's like, first of all, it stood out to me that what.

What upset one woman might be perceived as okay by another.

But then somebody said, oh, you look great.

And I thought, you know what?

I literally just said that to a survivor, you know, at this boot camp, like, literally an hour ago.

So, I mean, we're all guilty.

We're all guilty of it.

We all do it.

So it's like on one hand, you're sitting there going, oh, don't do that.

And at the same time, we all do it, because that's just human nature.

You can't help it.

But one of our guests that we had who is also in the documentary, her name's Katie, I feel like it comes different from another survivor or thriver.

Like, when they're doing it, it's more.

She called it the knowing.

Like, just knowing what they've been through for the most part.

I mean, everybody's stuff is different, obviously, but just knowing and understanding, I think it feels different coming from somebody who's been there, you know, where somebody who is just, like, saying it off the cuff and be like, oh, well, you look great.

Oh, well, at least your head is shaped nice.

It's just like, yeah, where'd that come from?

Like, where'd that come from?

Okay.

But they're just trying to connect and trying to be there for you in a way that they literally have no idea how.

Right.

So I've tried to be more.

I don't know, just more lenient on that, I guess.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I'm curious for you Guys, since it's less pity, more power, what does power look like for both of you after cancer?

But I think the power part for us is actually.

I mean, I'll just say for myself, I guess the power part for me is helping others.

And because ever since I was little, like, I always wanted to be a doctor, but then I realized, kind of through my life's journey and where it's taken me, it's more.

I like helping others.

And I owned a bakery for 14 years because I love making treats for other people.

So it's like, I love to make other people feel good.

And there's so many aspects of our life that are so hard and are so traumatizing that if I can make them a sweet treat and that'll make them feel better, even just for a second, like, that is great.

And so I feel like we're doing the same thing with Pink Power Hour.

And we always start each episode with a specialized drink for each guest.

And it makes me think of happy hour, which we do in our family every day.

Four o' clock is happy hour.

That's my grandma's, like, one rule.

And so the less pity, more power for me is don't feel bad for me.

Help me become a better person.

It's funny that you say that about cocktail hour, because I was just talking with some friends about how our grandparents.

Generation.

It was.

It was a thing like every.

Every evening, it was cocktail hour.

And my grand.

My grandma and grandpa would have a bourbon, and it was like.

And we were just like.

The reason that came up was I was talking about unresolved trauma and, like, how people coped with it in the older generations because they kind of were more adverse to working through their problems.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the joke became, well, yeah, they didn't need to because they always had cocktail hour.

Whatever.

It was done right.

You could start at whatever time.

And.

And I'm from Wisconsin, so we had Brandy.

There you go.

Yeah.

You guys have an upcoming book launch, and I mentioned this to you offline, but I love your cover art.

I think it's super cute and impactful.

What's the name of the book?

Tell everybody about it.

Yay.

It's called Love Stays.

It's all about a mom with metastatic breast cancer.

It's the character that you see on the front cover.

The characters that you see on the front cover.

The mom is supposed to be a combination of Amy and I. I'm the one with metastatic.

The mom loses her hair.

So there's parts that play into Both of our lives and then the children are actually representative of our kids.

Amy has a 14 year old daughter and I have two boys.

One's 10 and one just turned 6.

So it's the journey, the metastatic breast cancer journey, from the perspective of the kids.

And they helped write it also.

Yes, our kids helped write other authors.

So, yeah, they'll be at the.

We're doing a big book launch here in the Twin Cities at the Southdale Mall on May 28, where the kids will be all there signing books.

And, you know, the goal is really to give, you know, a legacy of sorts, but to involve, for me, I felt important to involve my kids somehow in a way that they felt like they were doing something with all of this.

Because for me to go back to your question about like, power and what that means for me, I needed a purpose again.

I had lost my purpose after my brain surgery.

I lost the ability to walk.

I.

There were all sorts of things and I just, I needed to work back up to that.

And I was like, I finally feel like somewhat of myself again and I can do something again.

So just having, having that as an outlet, having all of this as an outlet or a way to help, like Amy said, has been so wonderful for me personally.

Yeah.

One of the things that we always say is that, you know, we're not a disease, we're a soul.

Right.

And so what you're speaking to.

Yeah, what you're speaking to is soul work.

Right.

So you can't control your dise.

These, you can't, you know, and who wants to.

That's too much pressure.

You know, it's so important to remember that we're a soul and we need purpose and we need meaning in what we've been through.

Right.

And I had had a friend ask me, she was like.

Because I. I don't know, so many existential crises happened over and over again.

But she's like, yeah, but who are you?

And I was like, I have no idea.

Like every project that I've ever come a part of, I just wholeheartedly put my everything into.

So when I was a CT tech, it was that.

When I was a bakery owner, it was that.

And now at the foundation, it's that.

And she's like, but who are you without those things?

And I think that's the part that I'm trying to, I don't know, either cover up or ignore or like just kind of push forward.

Yeah.

And I just.

But that's work that all human beings should be doing.

And it's like we're, we're kind of forced into it because of cancer.

But it's like, I mean, I can't even tell you how many people I know that don't know themselves at all.

And it's like that journey of self discovery of who you are without work or who you are without, you know, feeling like you need to earn people's acceptance or admiration.

That's the real, that's the real work is figuring out to your point, who are you when there's no competition.

Right, Exactly.

I want to end with like last words you guys have for our audience and where they can find you.

But before we do that, let's hear from our second sponsor.

Thrivent is a proud sponsor of Faith Thru Fire.

Thrivent believes money is a tool, not a goal.

The Gateway Financial group with Thrivent is local to the St. Louis area and can work with you to create a financial strategy that reflects your priorities and helps you protect the things that matter to you, like family and giving back.

Please call 314-783-4214 to schedule a free consultation with one of Thrive In's Gateway Financial Advisors.

All right ladies, let everybody know where they can find the book Love Stays, where they can find the podcast and any last words you have for people listening.

So you can find everything essentially at our website is the best place.

I think it's pink powerhour.org we have all sorts of information on there about our book, our podcast and also our foundation that we started.

We raise money for women with breast cancer and we give one time financial grants and then we are on social media.

You can find our podcasts anywhere you listen to podcasts.

So yeah, yeah, and we have our events on there and yeah, we'll have the book on there eventually after, after the launch on the 28th, we'll have the book available for purchase on the website as well.

Amazing.

Well, thanks so much ladies for coming on.

Less pity, more power, right?

All right, until next time.

See ya.

Thank you for being a listener of.

The Besties with Breasties podcast.

If this podcast had a positive impact.

On your journey, leave us a review or consider becoming a supporter.

You can donate with the link in.

The show notes or atfaith through fire.org.