S6E11: You're Not Alone — You May Just Need A Different Kind of Support

Welcome to the Besties with Breasties podcast.

I'm Beth Wilmes, author, speaker, and founder of a human investment organization otherwise known as a nonprofit called Faith Through Fire.

Our mission is to reduce the fear and anxiety breast cancer patients feel and replace it with hope and a path toward thriving.

I'm Jess, a mom of two, former college soccer player, elementary PE teacher, and fitness enthusiast.

I was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer just before my 40th birthday.

And I'm Jamie, researcher, retired professional boxer, and breast cancer survivor who keeps life busy and joyful with a funny farm of animals, a loving family, and a big heart to serve others.

This podcast is about our experiences with breast cancer and life after as young survivors and moms.

Hey, Jamie.

What's up?

What's up?

What's up?

All right, we're going to jump right in today because we got busy days today.

All right.

You know that feeling, like, when you're going through something really hard and the people around you just aren't showing up, like, the way that you need them to?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It can feel so lonely and frustrating and hurtful.

And I think, like, a lot of times my instinct is to walk away thinking, like, they just do not care.

They don't care.

I can't count on them.

That's like a childhood wound, right?

I can't count on anybody.

I have to do it all myself.

But I think what we're gonna be talking about today is what if the issue isn't that you don't have support, but that we're expecting the wrong type of support from the wrong people?

Interesting.

Do you have thoughts on that?

I do.

I can't wait to jump into it.

All right.

Well, you know, I think most people, they immediately focus on emotional support, you know, when you're going through breast cancer.

And, I mean, Faith Through Fire has a mentorship program where we highlight that we'll match you with a survivor to emotionally support you during treatment.

But I think what gets lost in that is that not everybody is wired to give emotional support, and that even includes, like, mentors in our program.

There's lots of different kinds.

Kinds of support.

And so one of the questions that we'll ask people when they submit a form for a mentor is what kind of support feels most helpful to you?

And we're going to jump into what some of those options are.

So today we're going to talk about five types of different support, the shift.

In thinking that changes everything, and the.

Steps you can take to be supported in a way that feels good.

To you and those that love you.

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So I'm not going to start with emotional support, because that's what everybody expects.

Let's start with social support.

I know that you had people like this Jamie in your circle.

These are the ones that are like, let's get out of the house.

I. I had a friend.

I've talked about her before Val, and when I got diagnosed, she is so the person that offers social support.

She was like, hey, I'm meeting you at the gym.

You know, let's go walk on a treadmill.

She got me out of the house.

She reminded me that life still exists.

She kind of forced me to do it in such a great way.

You know what I mean?

It wasn't like a question, do you want to or can we?

It was like, hey, you're meeting me on this day.

And I was like, okay.

And it was lovely.

It was so crazy.

The day that I got diagnosed, as I've shared, was on my 40th birthday.

And one of my dear friends actually was with me at that appointment.

And I swear she knew everything before I did.

You know, I was.

I was enjoying the hot pink robe and the fake eyelashes in the lobby.

And I could, in hindsight, realize she knew what was going to happen that day before I did.

And I'll never forget, after the appointment, we didn't really talk, but we ended up at a tattoo parlor and we both got a tattoo.

We went and looked at daisies.

We just drove around with sun on her face, music loud.

She was definitely that lightness and that brevity that I needed.

So.

Absolutely, yeah.

Social support cannot be understated.

And people's tendency is to want to isolate during treatment.

You just.

I remember feeling a lot of shame about going out to events when I had no hair.

And so you kind of just shrink yourself sometimes.

And when those people pull you out and kind of force you to participate in life, it's a gift, you know?

It's a gift.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, okay, we will talk about emotional support.

Cause that's the one everybody expects.

This is the one we all default to.

Right.

This is your shoulder to cry on.

Except for.

Here's the thing.

I felt very uncomfortable crying on anybody's shoulder.

I think I cried on my mom's shoulder once.

Yeah.

Like, I don't see you having a problem with this.

Cause you're very in touch with your emotions.

However, I will say this is the.

This is the type of support that I really had to seek out and find my person.

Because, like you said, not everyone's good at it.

They might want to be your emotional support.

Most people are not good at it.

Right?

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, they're not good at it.

They can't just be there in the grief with you without trying to fix it.

And I'm one of those people.

I'm a fixer.

So if you tell me, like I'm devastated, I'm gonna be like, how do we get you not devastated?

I know.

I'm thinking about you across these five different types of supports, where you fit in my life with this.

So it's kind of fun.

Oh, I will get.

I want to hear that.

So we're going to get to that.

You know who I think falls into.

Under the category of not great with emotional support?

This is going to be me, man, hating again.

But men, like, any time Gary's got a friend that's going through something hard, and I'm like, oh, man, you just got to be there for them and maybe take them out for a beer and let them kind of cry into their beer, and he's like, dudes don't do that.

Like, not real.

Not a lot.

You know what I mean?

Like, they will, but they're just.

I don't know.

They don't do that.

They don't offer that soft space.

Right.

Where somebody can, like, really be upset about something.

It's so funny.

Yeah.

I mean, they want to fix.

They want to fix.

Men tend to be fixers.

And sometimes Gary jokes that he married a man.

And I said, well, that more reflects on you than it does on me.

But, yeah, okay.

Informational support.

So this is kind of what we were just talking about.

These are our problem solvers.

My aunt was that for me.

She would always do research because I was trying a lot of different things through treatment.

She'd find me resources, send me articles.

Just, you know, have you thought about this?

Have you tried that?

She was my go to for all of that.

Did you have that person in your life?

Well, I've talked about this, I think, before, but my uncle, who's a very kind person, he sent me this encyclopedia book on breast cancer.

I mean, it was thick.

It was like, everything you need to know about breast cancer.

Now, I, of course, graciously thanked him and then put it away and never looked at it again, because what he didn't know was that at that point in my journey, I was actively avoiding anything that reminded me that I had breast cancer.

But I think he's a problem solver.

Right.

Like, I don't know what to do for you.

I want to give you something helpful.

Here's a book.

And I really, really appreciated the gesture.

I didn't use it, but it.

I.

But that's not what stuck with me.

What.

What stuck with me was the fact that he was trying to offer support that would be helpful to me in a situation where I was really helpless.

And so I really have to.

Yeah, I have a soft spot for him for that reason.

Let's talk about the fourth one, which is esteem support.

Okay.

So I think you might push back, but hear me out.

This is where I saw you in my life.

I know.

Just.

Just hang with me.

Hang with.

Okay, so, like, these are typically your cheerleaders.

Like, you're strong, you're capable, you're going to get through this.

And they may not sit and cry with you, but they're pulling you forward.

So you were not my cheerleader in the sense, like, you've got this, but you would let me have my moment and then basically, like, smack me in the face and be like, let's go.

You know what I mean?

That sounds like me.

That.

That.

Just.

Okay.

That there's.

There it is.

There it is, like, in the most unempathetic way, which is what I needed.

You know, I have a friend that tells you you look fat in those pants.

That's.

That's.

But, like, in a very, like, I Know you love me.

You're just very direct and blind.

That's what I needed.

That's what I needed.

So you were my esteemed support in the best kind of way.

Just so people know when I am that kind of friend to you, there is a flicker where I go, is that too much?

And then I quickly land on, no, they need this.

She doesn't stay there long.

No, I really.

I never do.

I never do.

Well, that's actually nice.

I don't get to be the cheerleader often for people.

I'm not the rah rah, like you can do anything kind of person, person.

I'm kind of like quietly lurking in the background until you ask me something.

And then I'm going to tell you what I really think.

Going to hit me right between the eyes.

Right, Right.

But I do like the idea that you said pulling you forward, because that's what I'm trying to do.

Right.

Is not let people sit in what they're dealing with.

Right.

Okay, so let's talk about the fifth one.

Well, no, no, let's pause.

Do we want to do boobs in the news, or should we do the fifth one first?

Let's do boobs in the news and.

Then drop the fifth.

Yep.

All right.

I'm gonna make you people wait.

Boobs in the News is a fun segment where we read funny tweets by real people or ridiculous news stories.

Bibs in the news.

Bibs in the news.

Bibs in the news.

So this.

This one I have feelings about.

You have feelings about every one of them.

I do.

I do.

Okay, so do we know where Queensland is?

Because apparently it's going to be the site of the 2032 Olympic Games.

So Australia.

No, it might be.

Well, now, I want to know.

It sounds very Australia.

It does.

We're just going to go with it.

Okay, so the 2032 Olympic Games rowing competition is going to be on Rockhampton's Fitzroy River.

Okay, now that sounds okay to you, right?

Except for that it is a crocodile habitat.

It's a crocodile habitat 370 miles from the city hosting the Brisbane Olympics.

Brisbane's Australia, Right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And officials are not considering alternatives.

They said, we're committed to this.

There's no reason to be looking at alternatives when you have the level of confidence that we have.

Right.

I would be so terrified while I'm rowing that I'm going to tip and fall in that there is no way in hell I'd be able to, like, put my best game face on.

Yeah.

Like do they tip?

Do Olympic rowers tip?

What if you hit a crocodile with your oar?

Right, I have a lot of questions.

So apparently Fitzroy crocodiles are managed under zone E, which is a classification in which the animals are left undisturbed unless they start eating things the state cares.

About, such as pets or people that fall over.

Then their behavior is officially classified as dangerous, at which point a wildlife officer is dispatched to retrieve whatever's left of the dog.

Yikes.

I feel like it's like a variable that shouldn't need to be a part of an Olympic event.

If you're like an extreme rower, it could be like a crazy sport thing, but, like, that's a.

That's a weird variable for an Olympic event.

I think so, yes.

And not okay for their mental health as they try to Prepare for this.

500 Rowers signed an open letter last month asking the state to pick literally anywhere else.

They're like, anywhere else they did.

So they're afraid.

Yeah.

So you think about this.

So, like, I was a professional fighter and I would have to train for the environment I was going to compete in.

Like, what does that look like for these people?

Say that again.

You had to.

What, you train for the environment, you know, that you're.

You're gonna compete in.

So, like, how do they prepare for that in a.

In a relevant and meaningful way?

Do they?

Yeah, you know what?

I. I would love to see how their coaches prepare them for this.

Do they get in the water and pretend to be a crocodile and they're like, I'm coming for you.

What are you gonna do in this situation?

Keep your heart rate down.

Yeah, keep your heart rate down.

Don't let that fit the game.

Too crazy.

You just keep your eye on the ball, right?

And then you start rocking the boat.

What are you gonna do, son?

What are you gonna do?

Oh, I mean, surely there's enough bodies of water to figure this out.

That's crazy.

Yeah, I agree.

So who's the boob to you?

The.

The people, the officials who decided.

The.

The people.

The people who decided to put all these rowers in a crocodile infested river.

What morons.

I know, I'm.

I'm.

You know, that's not even a boob.

That's a. I mean, there's your boobs.

There's your boobs.

Boobs.

And then is bibs.

All right, let's do.

Talk about the fifth one, which is tangible support.

This is like the action based support, right?

These are the people who do the meal trains or the money.

Like the GoFundMes, the rides, the care packages.

That is those people, which I also quite appreciated.

I loved it when a little fun surprise would find its way to my mailbox or a meal would find its way to my porch.

Because my love language is acts of service.

So anything that makes my life easier, I totally appreciate what I.

Yes.

Action based.

That's my.

That's my biggest advice to people going through.

When people say, how do you show up?

It's like, just show up.

Just show up and do something.

Don't make them make more decisions.

You know, go do a load of laundry.

Go.

I had a girlfriend come over.

She cleaned my house the first couple weeks without me asking after my double mastectomy, and it was, like, amazing.

I think the thing that's interesting is that, like, cancer's not this isolated event, you know, and it's interesting to watch the types of support fade over time and kind of processing that and what you need in different seasons.

Yeah.

A lot of people feel a little abandoned.

Yeah.

Because.

But, you know, that's not other people's fault.

They.

They think they were there for you in the crisis.

And then when the crisis dissipates, they go back to homeostasis.

Which is so funny because we talk about this in our survivorship boot camp.

Right.

Y.

Once you.

You have the fear, you activate, and then supposedly after the fear, after the threat is gone, you go back to homeostasis.

So people who are functioning normally and haven't had a crisis, that's what they're doing.

But you're not there yet.

You're still in fight or flight.

You're still in crisis mode, even though the danger has, quote, unquote, passed.

And so when people kind of fade into the background and they start saying things like, you did it.

You beat it.

You're fine.

Now everybody's like, nope, actually, I feel worse than ever.

And where is everybody?

Yep.

So you really got to understand the dynamics at play there.

They're not trying to abandon you.

It's just that their stress response cycle is normal and yours is not complete.

Complete.

Yeah.

They have closed the trouble loop.

You have not.

That is what's happening there.

So let's talk about the shift that changes everything, you know, because really, it's about, you know, figuring out what are people good at, because they're not going to be good at all five of these.

Correct.

Right.

And so, like, if I have an expectation that this friend is going to be, you know, dropping meals off and instead, you know, sending me, you know, like, it's like, if somebody's not meeting your expectations, is it that they're providing no support or they're not providing the support that you would find most helpful in that moment.

Yep.

And that goes back to saying what you need and being clear on who's strong in that category, because then you just set yourself up for disappointment, and it's not really fair to them or to you.

Yeah.

Like, think about.

If you're about friend is, like, awesome at getting you out of the house and making you laugh and acting like nothing's wrong.

Right.

But then you're upset with her because she's not helping you emotionally process.

Yep.

And it's like.

But that's not her superpower.

Right.

Her superpower is to.

To pull you out of your funk.

Right.

And focus your energy on something else.

And so if you have that expectation of her and now she's not meeting it, now your relationship dynamics could be at risk and you feel disappointed and she feels kind of hurt.

Yeah.

So I think this.

This episode is really about putting people where they're best suited.

I mean, do you think.

Yeah.

Like, shifting that from they aren't showing up for me to what sort of support are they actually good at giving.

And are they doing that?

Yeah, because we're gonna.

If you don't take that time to really think, which again, maybe it's asking too much when you're in the thick of things.

This.

This.

This, though, I feel like carries you through all kinds of things in life.

Not just breast cancer, but when we don't.

When we misunderstand their intent, you know, you're going to pull away from people who are trying to show up.

You're going to miss the supports that are actually being given, and you're going to.

You're going to isolate, and that's not good.

Right.

So matching people to their strengths, I think is what I'm hearing.

Before we kind of close out this episode, let's hear from our second sponsor.

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All right, Jamie, final words of wisdom.

We're back.

Let's leave the people with something.

What do you got?

I think you need to look at your people, match them to their strengths, and rethink how you lean on them.

Right.

So sometimes it doesn't always look how we expect.

And maybe they're giving us things that we didn't know we needed.

So we have to be a bit objective in how we're kind of judging and receiving.

Right.

Well said.

I have nothing to add to that.

That was perfection.

All right, guys, until next time.

See ya.

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