S6E7: What He Really Thought When She Said “I Had Breast Cancer”

Welcome to the Besties With Breasties podcast.

I'm Beth Wilmes, author, speaker, and founder of a human investment organization otherwise known as a nonprofit called Faith Through Fire.

Our mission is to reduce the fear and anxiety breast cancer patients feel and replace it with hope and a path toward thriving.

I'm Jess, a mom of two, former college soccer player, elementary PE teacher, and fitness enthusiast.

I was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer just before my 40th birthday.

And I'm Jamie, researcher, retired professional boxer and breast cancer survivor who keeps life busy and joyful with a funny farm of animals, a loving family, and a big heart to serve others.

This podcast is about our experiences with.

Breast cancer and Life Factor as young survivors and moms.

Hey.

Hey, Jess.

How you doing?

Good.

How are you?

I'm doing good.

I'm doing good.

I'm having a.

A good day.

Good.

Me too.

Feeling very relaxed.

That is wonderful.

I love feeling relaxed.

I feel like so many times I wake up and I'm like, I have 7,000 things I need to do.

I don't really usually feel relaxed.

Well, that hasn't changed.

I do have a very long list of things to do today.

But does your family like when you guys.

Because we're.

By the time this records, we're already going to be in 2026.

But, like, for every new year, do you guys, as a family kind of come up with, like, your phrases of how you want to feel for the year?

Do you guys do anything like that?

No, not really.

Sometimes we've done things, but not.

Not consistently.

My two oldest don't normally.

Like, my kids don't fight that much, which is really great.

So I feel like that's nice.

But they've got.

They've kind of had an uptick lately.

So I told them this this year.

I was just like, the words are peaceful, calm, and loving.

And if anything you're doing doesn't fall into peaceful, calm, or loving, it does not fit with our family values, and you cannot do it.

And how did they respond?

They rolled their eyes.

And then every time they do something that I don't like, I'm like, is that peaceful, calm, or loving?

And they're just like, oh, my gosh.

But by the end of 2026, they're going to have that drilled into their head, and then I'm going to give them new words.

I love it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So my point being is that I have a very long list of things to do, but every time I start to feel overwhelmed, I just say peaceful, calm, and loving.

And I Don't know.

It just centers me.

I was.

Yeah, that's great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So that has nothing to do with what we're talking about today.

Nothing at all.

Absolutely nothing at all.

So.

But I am excited for this interview.

So our last interview, we interviewed Allie about dating and marrying somebody after a breast cancer diagnosis, which a lot of our single ladies who are survivors are really interested in this topic.

You know, just dating after and what it's like.

And, you know, are there any good men out there?

And apparently there are, because Allie found hers.

And so it was a really good interview to talk to Allie about how it felt for her to kind of get back into dating and to disclose that she had had breast cancer.

And in a follow up to that, we are going to talk to her husband Kevin, for his perspective, which I think is.

I know I. I think we all really want to know the inner workings of the male brain and especially when it comes to their feelings about their significant other having breast cancer.

But Kevin met her before he knew that.

So first we're going to talk to Kevin about how he found the dating world to be before meeting Ally.

Because I think we.

We kind of know, based off our previous interviews, how women feel about the dating world.

I want to hear from a man.

Yes, I'm excited to hear that too.

Then we're going to ask what the moment felt like when Allie disclosed she was a cancer survivor.

And finally, we're going to wrap up with his final thoughts on dating cancer.

Any words of wisdom to those listening?

But before we introduce Kevin, let's hear from our first sponsor.

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Well, welcome.

Kevin.

Thanks so much for being with us today.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely.

So if you don't mind, remind me, because I'm trying to remember, we spoke to your lovely wife, but how old were you when you met Allie?

So I was 30 years old when I met her.

It actually just turned 30 about a month prior.

Okay.

All right, so this is my question for you because we're super curious about the male perspective here.

What did you find dating to be like, leading up to meeting her?

Like, what is it like out there?

Because I've heard from women what they think it's like out there.

What do you think it's like?

What is it like out there?

I mean, it's tough.

It's tough for everybody.

It's tough finding people, you know, it's.

Once you meet them, you know, it's okay.

I mean, you get past the awkward stages.

I did a lot of, you know, through online, and that's kind of where a lot of people meet these days.

Yeah.

It feels like the general consensus is that's the easiest way to meet people.

I don't know why that is.

Before we had dating apps, I mean, what did we all do?

Right?

Yeah, exactly.

We had to meet in person.

Now everything has kind of been.

That's where things feel like they're.

That's where you go, and that's kind of how it's done, and which is sort of, you know.

So what did you find when you were dating prior to her?

Was it.

You said it's tough.

Was it just finding somebody that shared your values?

Was it just finding somebody that you had a connection with?

Was it that you found women were interested in things you weren't like, what was your finding?

I would say it was basically just.

It's tough finding making, you know, versus tough getting, frankly, getting somebody to.

To meet with you.

There's a lot of swiping, a lot of, you know, clicking through profiles.

That's something I know.

A lot of people I've known have had that similar kind of experience is just like the actual tracking, getting some tracking somebody down, and then it's just, you know, having that connection there in person.

You know, I didn't do a ton of dating before I met my wife, but I did some.

And, you know, you just kind of.

It's.

You need to find people.

You, you know, you go out with them, and it's, you know, finding the right one more or Less.

Yeah.

Did you have any non negotiables?

Like, did you have any criteria that you were like, this is like a non negotiable for me, or like, did you even think about what you do if somebody you were interested in had, like a complicated medical past, Was that even on your radar?

So that really wasn't on my radar.

I mean, like, you know, in terms of non negotiable things, like, you know, I wanted to get married, kind of sharing a lot of my, you know, general values and.

Sure.

Alike.

In terms of medical.

No, it wasn't really something.

I'll be honest.

It wasn't something that really I had thought about.

I mean, sometimes, like, you know, I get worried, like, you know, myself, you know, like, just like being, you know, trying to be healthy and stuff.

But I guess that wasn't really something.

I was thinking, like, you know, you think like, oh, 30 years from now, you know, somebody might.

And that happens.

Or, you know, 20 years, certainly my grandparents and, you know, everybody.

A lot of people know and had people go through stuff, but it's.

It's not.

Not something I was expecting, you know.

Well, can you walk us through that?

Like, the moment that Allie told you about her breast cancer diagnosis, Like, I. I'm really curious because you weren't expecting it.

I mean, this wasn't something that was on your radar.

So I'm sure your initial reaction was just complete and utter surprise, and then you're having to kind of process it in real time.

So what was that like?

That was interesting.

It was.

It was very.

She was reluctant to share, which I can understand.

And we were kind of having a conversation.

It was pretty early on in, when we had.

After we had met, I think it was only about the fourth or fifth date, and.

And I was over at her apartment, and we were kind of opening up to each other a little bit.

You know, I had been opening up a little bit about, you know, just myself.

She was kind of like, well, I'd like to tell you something too.

And I was like, okay.

That's always scary, right, when somebody's like, I've got something for you, pal.

Right, right.

It's like, okay.

And I'm like, that's fine.

And then she.

She shared that she had been through her cancer journey, that she had had breast cancer, and that she actually had gone through her mastectomy.

And I was surprised.

I think, I suppose this is a podcast about breast cancer.

So, you know, Guy, I'll admit I noticed.

I was.

I was, you know, saw her shirt and her chest.

And I was.

I was like, like, does that quite match the picture?

And I'm like.

I'm like, okay, because remind the audience, did she have a double mastectomy and reconstruction?

She.

So she has had a double mastectomy and a reconstruction, but at the time I met her, she had not had the reconstruction yet.

Oh, wow.

That's what I think I was so impressed with about Allie is like.

I mean, for me, because I'm such a private person and I'm so conservative when it comes to my body, just generally speaking, even before breast cancer, I don't think I would have had the courage to get out there at that stage.

I mean, I was just kind of blown away by her.

Yeah, no, it was when she revealed that this is something that had happened like months prior.

So she was flat when you guys were together.

Like, she had not done reconstruction yet.

Yeah, she didn't get the reconstruction until, I believe it was that summer after.

And we met in the end of January, in 2020, actually.

So, I mean, you said it right.

Like, I'm just imagining guys are visual creatures.

Breasts are kind of important to a lot of men.

I mean, what was your.

I'm sure you were trying to find that balance between processing what she was saying, being compassionate and kind to her, while you're also trying to figure out, how do I actually feel about this?

Like, that's a lot going on in.

In one conversation.

Sure, sure.

It was mostly, I think it was a lot of.

It was a lot of surprise.

Of course, you know, I definitely did have the, you know, because my grandmother had breast cancer and you saw it.

It's not something that is completely foreign.

And now, so obviously I was, you know, had compassion and concern for her, and I was glad to hear that, you know, everything was all cleared up and, you know, everything was taken care of.

Nothing.

Everything was all gone.

Yeah, it was.

So how did you guys proceed?

Did you guys kind of like, did she give you like a moment?

Like, was.

Was there that moment in your relationship, that tension of, okay, is he gonna call again?

Is this like a non negotiable for him?

How did that work?

Hmm, I don't think so.

There wasn't really, like, attention, I guess I had stayed over that night and, you know, we just kind of, you know, spent the night together and we just, you know, that didn't really seem like there was any.

Okay, so you got over it pretty quick.

I got over it.

I'm very.

I'm very.

It is what it is, I think.

Yeah.

You Weren't gonna let that, though.

This is interesting to me.

You weren't gonna let that deter you if you felt like there was connection there and, you know, some.

A spark, I guess is what I'm hearing.

Right.

Yeah, for sure.

I think it was, honestly, something more or less just.

I don't want to say I didn't know how to handle it, but it was just like, oh, you know, that's just not something I thought.

And like I said, I.

Like when I compared it to the pictures there, I'll admit there was a little part of me that was like, I. I thought that something didn't quite match.

So it was like, I got it, you know, and I.

But it was.

There was never a moment where I was like, oh, now, you know, I can understand being like, well, maybe if that had been something where she was, like, never going to say, you know, if she hadn't gone through a reconstruction or wasn't planning to do that, because she was pretty open that she was.

That this was like, the next step in the process and that she'd already lined some stuff up and that was going to be happening.

So I was like, okay, you know, and.

But I suppose maybe not everybody does that.

And then, I don't know.

I suppose I didn't have to cross that bridge.

Right.

Yeah.

I think every man's gonna have to make that decision.

Right.

Whether that's important to him or not.

And obviously would have been a lot different if it would have been.

If we had been stayed together for, like, 10, 15 years versus, like, I met you three, four weeks ago.

Well, and I think that that's something that a lot of women, like, you know, are feeling because, you know, I've been married a long time.

Jess has been married a long time.

It's almost like, you know, your husband has to love you because you guys have been together so long, and it's built on kind of this deep love that kind of, you know, surpasses just the physical.

But when you first meet somebody, physical attraction's a big part of it.

Right, so.

For sure, yeah.

There's a lot of processing going on there.

I give you a lot of.

I commend you.

I mean, you.

You stuck around, you stayed the night, you guys had a good time.

It's like, you know, I think a lot of men would have been so shocked.

I don't know that they would, you know, I don't know how they would have handled it.

It's.

It's, I think, very encouraging.

What do you think, Jess?

Well, I was just wondering after you left that next day, like, what was going through your head?

Was there ever, like, any moments of fear or just being uncertain?

Like, after you, like, were by yourself, like, how did you process through that?

Or did you.

Or were you just able to move right past it?

Yeah.

Trying to think back, I think.

I don't.

I think it was, like.

I don't think it was fear in terms of, like, where she was at then or her appearance or anything like that, because, again, I was attracted to her.

And, you know, we had that connection that we were building, and we really had a good moment of trust where we were able to open up to each other.

And honestly, like, I felt, like, really good about where we were at, because we were already.

We were already talking and very honest.

And, you know, the only thing that I guess was.

I don't know.

Fear is Right.

But kind of I was.

It was just like, you've had it.

Like, God forbid, what if it were to come back?

What is.

Like, what would that be like?

Because that's what happened.

I said, my grandmother had it, and then she beat it, but the cancer came back and it was in her bone.

And, you know, that one you don't really beat, so.

Right.

She did pass away from that.

So it was a thought in my head.

I was like, oh, man, she's already had cancer.

She's got the gene.

Like, you know, they took care of it, but, like, what if they didn't get all of it?

Or, like, you know, what if what happens here?

And it wasn't, you know, it wasn't anything like, oh, I would be scared away or anything.

But it definitely was something that I, you know, had popped in my head where I was like, like, what is this going to mean in terms of, like, you know, managing that?

Like, what if there is, like, further management that has to be done?

I don't know much about.

Right.

Well, also, there's the question of children.

I don't know if you guys want children or not, but, you know, once you've had cancer, that's a question, too.

I want to kind of dive into that.

But before we do that, you guys want to do Boobs in the News?

Yes.

Let's do it.

All right.

Boobs in the News is a fun segment where we read funny tweets by real people or ridiculous news stories.

Boobs in the News.

Bibs in the news.

Boobs in the news.

Okay, so today's Boobs in the News.

Here's the headline.

Women quits after Boss asked for GPs location, hospital picks during family emergency.

So hold on, hold on.

Say that title again.

So she quits because her boss wants her GPS location.

Because.

What?

I've missed the second part of that.

Because she was at the hospital during a family emergency and not at all.

Oh.

Oh, that's a bad boss.

Terrible.

Yeah.

I already dislike this guy.

Yeah.

Or girl.

He demanded.

Well, I don't know if it's a man or woman.

I feel like it's a man.

I feel like when I read it, but it might not say.

But yeah, basically she was at the hospital for a family emergency and her boss demanded proof of why she wasn't at work.

Oh, my gosh.

I don't even care if this woman's like the worst employee ever.

If somebody says they have a family emergency, you always assume.

You know what I mean?

The truth like that is terrible.

Apparently she had told her team, the leader of her team, that she was missing because of a family undergoing, like a cancer surgery.

So it was like kind of a big.

Oh, yeah, that's a big family emergency, you know?

Oh, yeah, I would quit, too.

I would quit, too.

Have you ever had a boss that's like, kind of like that?

Just terrible?

No.

Well, no, no, not like that.

No, I had one.

I actually was recalling this the other day because, you know, as Missouri weather gets worse, you know, when you have those icy road days.

And we had one not that long ago where the roads were kind of a mess.

I was thinking back to this.

So this was 20 plus years ago, but I worked for this woman who I think what happened is she had just been burned by so many prior employees that instead of assuming the best in people, she just kind of assumed the worst.

That was kind of her go to.

I was on my way to the office and I slid on some ice and slammed into another car on an overpass.

You know how those overpasses are super slick.

Oh, yeah.

And so I slammed into this other car.

It was super scary because you're on an overpass.

It's not like you're on the.

You know, I don't know.

I was very shaken, so I said.

I called her and told her, hey, listen, I'm going to be a little bit late to work.

I just slammed into this other car on the overpass.

The roads were a mess.

It was snowing.

I mean, the weather was horrendous.

She asked.

She asked me to send her a picture.

Are you serious?

Yeah.

I mean, I have definitely heard of bosses like this that have even, like followed people where they think they're gonna be.

Luckily, I haven't had a boss like.

That, but, I mean, that's definitely grounds for quitting, though.

Good for the woman for just being like, I don't need this kind of stress.

And, you know, I.

We've talked about this at Faith Through Fire, but women underestimate what that kind of environment does for their mental and their physical health.

Knowing what I know now, post cancer, there is no way in hell I would stay in an environment like that.

Right?

I know.

Me too.

That is so bad for you.

Well, we don't need to guess who the boob is in this scenario.

We know.

No, not at all.

Jerk.

You jerk.

All right.

There's your boobs.

Bibs in the news.

Bibs in the news, baby.

All right.

And we're back.

So you mentioned.

And this is what would cross my mind, like, if.

If I.

Because I tried to tell myself, would you date a cancer survivor knowing everything?

You know, And I think I would.

And the physical stuff wouldn't scare me off, but the emotional component of what if it comes back?

That would be a real consideration for me because you are, you know, you are hitching your wagon to.

And in some regards, I think this is kind of a moot point because it's like life is so unpredictable anyway.

You can't plan around it.

You can't sit there and think you're going to avoid difficulty or trials.

But I think I would pause and think, okay, you know, I've seen this happen before.

Am I ready to emotionally invest myself into somebody who may or may not be here in the future?

And that's.

That's a whole different ball game.

So I'm glad that you brought that up.

And then also the children part, you know, for a lot of men, it's like women go through breast cancer and sometimes they can have children and sometimes they can't.

And so was that something that crossed your mind?

So it hadn't really.

I mean, she established early on that she wasn't.

She did not want to have kids.

Okay.

So that was a non issue.

Well, sort of, you know, because obviously, you know, I. I've known, or I guess I've heard stories of people who've said that.

They said, like, I had a friend of mine who, he was never going to get married, he was never going to have kids, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Long story short, he's married now.

And they've been working on going through a big process of trying to, you know, have children there.

So I know people, you know, don't they say stuff?

And then, you know, sometimes people change.

And so, you know, that even though that wasn't really a plan and not something I had, like, we were too.

You know, it didn't put too much thought in, but certainly, like, it's something that, you know, has popped up where it's like, you know, occasionally where she said stuff like, you know, I don't.

Like, we're not planning on it, but, like, what if I didn't?

She's like, I don't know if I could.

And I'm like, that's true.

And that really, you know, I love her, so I wouldn't.

That would never, you know, deter me away.

But, yeah, that's definitely.

And that.

That's certainly probably a consideration for a lot of.

A lot of people out there.

For us, like I said, so for us, it worked out, you know, very smoothly.

But I can imagine that that would be complicated for.

For people who are looking for that.

Looking back now, is there anything that you didn't know about survivorship since meeting Ally?

Like, survivorship can be a rocky road for a lot of women.

You know, there's a lot more to it than people think.

Like you said, you kind of get done with treatment and you move on with your life.

But do you.

Right.

There's some residual emotional baggage there.

Have you seen that with Allie?

Has it impacted your relationship at all?

Is there anything about survivorship that surpr.

I think what surprised me about her is actually how much, at least, she seems to be very, very tough about it.

And almost like.

Like, it does.

It almost said it wasn't a big thing.

Like, I almost have, like, had the.

I've had the thought, and I've expressed this to her a few times, that I'm surprised that this wasn't more of an event, more of a lingering event.

I mean, she had to take.

I don't know what she shared with you, but she did have to take some medication after that for years.

Yeah.

And, you know, that's just.

But that was more or less just, like, making sure to do it and keeping up on that.

You know, there's certain other side effects that have come in from that, but by and large, she's been.

I give her a lot of credit.

She's mentally very tough.

Mentally tough, and very much describe the situation kind of as like, you know, well, I got to do it.

This is what we treated.

I don't have to go through chemo or radiation, and it'll be done.

And, you know, I feel like for Me, I would have been a little more like, oh, my God, Like, I just had this massive surgery.

A big part of my, you know, identity.

How you present yourself.

The world has just been cut away at such a young age.

And.

Yeah, so I'm on.

I'm honestly, like, are you sure it.

Doesn't bother you more?

That's funny.

Well, there's usually one person in the couple, you know, that maybe is more emotional about those things versus the other.

It sounds like you guys are fairly matched.

Yeah, yeah.

No, there's other things, you know, that bother her more and bother me, but in this one, this is.

This.

She's.

Well, what.

What?

Speak.

Speak to that.

What bothers her more than it does you?

Oh.

Oh, well, this has nothing to do with cancer.

Oh, okay.

It's other things that have happened, you know, in life.

Well, let me ask you this, because you mentioned her being on the medication and.

And the medications, the hormone suppression therapy is what I'm assuming you're talking about.

She was on Tamoxifen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you.

A lot of times women are most frustrated with the drug therapy because it's a real quality of life.

It can be a quality of life issue for a lot of women.

It affects their joints.

It affects their.

Their libido.

It affects, like, their intimacy with their partner.

You know, sex can often be painful because you're basically being thrust into menopause at a very early age.

How do you guys navigate that?

And how do you maintain intimacy when you're dealing with these, like, real side effects?

Yeah, so that's a good question, because I forget the first thing you said and that, like, thankfully, there's no, like, pain and their joints are fine.

There's none of that.

But certainly she's expressed that it's impacted her libido a bit, and it really just takes, you know, making sure we're communicating to each other, you know, and just that we're doing it regularly, you know, and keeping that healthy intimacy going up.

I. I think that's, like, a really interesting point.

And, Jess, I would be curious your.

Your viewpoint on this, because I have heard.

I personally believe that you have to maintain that intimacy even if your libido is low or even if you don't necessarily have the drive, because I think it's a really important part for staying close.

Now, I have heard women who say, I don't have a libido, so we just don't have sex.

I feel like that's unfair, but I think some women feel it's unfair for the man to expect sex in a relationship.

And I. I mean, I know where I land on that.

I feel like sex needs to be an important part of a relationship.

And.

And I've joked about it before, but when I was on drugs, that affected painful sex or libido.

I mean, I just powered through, you know, I was like, this is important for me to do for my husband.

How do you guys feel about that?

I mean, I think it's really important just to.

To keep the communication, which I think can be tough between, you know, like, between me and my husband.

Like, keep that communication about what is important in the relationship, because I think we.

I mean, we obviously know men and women are wired completely different, and sex is very important for men, and they need, you know, their needs met, too.

So I think it's just important to keep your communication and to have those, like, deeper conversations.

And sometimes I think it's hard, you know, especially when you're on these drugs and it changes how you feel.

And.

Yeah, you're, like, all over the place, you know, emotionally and how you feel, and the libido is gone.

It.

I think it's really tough, but I think it's just important to come back together, in my opinion, and have those conversations and be honest with each other about what you need and what you don't need and how you're feeling, you know?

What do you think?

What do you think, Kevin?

Well, I definitely, you know, I'm glad that we, like.

I think intimacy is important in a, you know, a romantic relationship.

You know, I'm glad we both have, you know, we both, you know, we both need it in a relationship.

It's.

Otherwise, we don't want to be roommates.

And, you know, that's certainly not something, as a.

Somebody who was freshly meeting her would have been.

I would not have signed up for that.

Like, that's.

I think that's a hard sell for somebody new and really, for any relationship.

And I think it's, you know, it's key.

And that's why we, you know, we make sure we do it, you know, we're very regular about it, and we always are talking about it, you know, and where we're at and.

And, you know, there is.

I don't want to speak too much about her, but, you know, I.

Like, how do I guess.

Yeah, it's just.

It's okay to say you want sex.

It's okay to say you want sex, Kevin.

It's all right.

We're not.

We're not gonna.

But.

But she does too is the thing.

And the dry, like, yes.

Like, there are, you know, certain drive issues, but it's something she wants and it's something we both value.

So this is.

I don't want to portray this as, you know.

Right.

Big, boorish caveman, and I want sex, and my wife is, you know, too busy, I don't know, doing whatever stereotypical thing.

It's like, no, we're both human adults and, and value that in a romantic relationship and know that that's a very, very important part of our sexual and emotional health.

Yeah, I agree.

I, I think two women underestimate how much communication and then just working at that can.

Can change.

I think some people get depressed about it and feel like it's not something that can improve over time, but I've seen over and over again that that's not the case, and I do think it's meaningful.

Like you said, you know, you, You.

You want a spouse or a partner, not necessarily a roommate.

So I think it's important that we're honest about that.

Right.

And like you said, a man.

A man's probably not going to come into a relationship saying it's totally fine if we're celibate.

Right.

Like that.

I mean, I don't know what world.

I don't think anybody would sign up for that.

I don't think.

I think that would be a really tough sell for anybo woman, you know, whoever, like to be like, oh, yeah, by the way, don't.

Don't expect sex.

Well, and likewise, we've heard women, you know, whose husbands are going through a lull, right.

And they don't have very much interest.

And the women feel very hurt and very rejected.

And.

And so that rejection and that hurt goes both ways.

And it's like, you know, I think men's libidos tend to, you know, they.

People talk like they're stronger, but we've seen it go the other way, too, where women are feeling rejected or alone or not emotionally close because that sexual piece isn't there from their husbands and as well.

So I appreciate you being willing to share that with us.

I want to kind of wrap up with your final words or words of encouragement or just your overall thoughts.

But before we do that, let's hear from our second sponsor.

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All right, Kevin, so you have done the brave thing, coming on and speaking from a man's perspective.

Is there anything you want people to know who are in the dating world who have this diagnosis and are just trying to grapple with how to share?

What do you think?

Did you like the way that Ali shared?

Would you have done it differently?

Would you.

How should women be approaching this with potential partners?

I do like how she shared it.

I think just honesty is, that's, that's the key.

That's it.

You're gonna have to say at some point, just be, just be open and honest about it.

It doesn't mean you have to, you know, the first two minutes after meeting somebody, you know, I'm cancer, you're cancer.

But, you know, it's like share that early on.

And I don't, I don't think, I really don't think, you know, most people would be scared off on that.

You know, just be open enough front, this is what's, what happened, or I'm going through treatment, or I went through treatment and, you know, what does that mean?

And, and you know, if some, like, could there be somebody that rejects them for that, I guess, but, you know, then they really weren't worth your time anyway.

So I think just, it's not, I really don't think it's this, it probably, I don't know.

I have not had cancer.

I cannot share, you know, what that would have been like to have to, you know, disclose that because obviously I'm sure there's a lot of anxiety about, you know, oh, what is this going to mean?

Is she healthy?

Is, you know, is she going to be able to do stuff, you know, like you said, about like, you know, intimacy and all that, or just like recurrence or anything like.

I'm sure that there's a lot of anxiety about that here, but I, you know, I don't, I think most people are, are going to be fine with that.

Okay?

We all are adults and I, I, I, if you find somebody who does not know anybody who has gone through, you know, tough medical things or just other tough life events, then, you know, good for them because I don't, I don't think that, I don't think that's too common.

I think everybody's got, got something they've had to deal with or something that's, that's going on in their lives or people they know's lives.

And we all, you know, we're adults and just be, just be open and transparent about it and encourage that and just, you know, have those mature conversations.

And you know how much this confidence play into it because you've kind of mentioned that Ali's like, hey, this is what it is, it happened.

You know, I'm not going to let it limit me.

And she's just living life.

Sometimes I think women are their own worst enemy because they lack that confidence to just own their story.

Do you feel like that's for a man?

Is it attractive to you to see a woman who is not defined right by her difficulty?

Is that something that's attractive?

Sure.

I guess I would put it that it helped put me at ease.

I think a lot, I think is the way I would frame it.

You know, it was, it was something very much where she was like, oh yeah, I had cancer.

And it wasn't quite like that.

She was obviously a lot more nervous, especially about sharing the mastectomy part of it, I think was honestly the more anxiety inducing thing for her than.

As opposed to just literally the actual diagnosis itself.

And I can get that because obviously that's the, you know, the physical and the, you know what vidman being visual at least a lot of the time.

So that, that certainly I can understand that there.

I.

But I think her being confident about it and being like, look, this is what I just being, like I said, just being open and transparent about like, this is what happened.

And it didn't really seem to bother her.

So I don't think it was.

I think it was just like, oh, if she's not too worried, then I don't need to be worried.

You know, was like, oh, I don't need to worry.

Like, great.

Okay.

Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your experience.

We really appreciate it.

No, thank you for having me.

I appreciate that.

It's not something I was expecting to do and suddenly she.

Allie mentioned this is like, oh, I'm doing this thing.

I'm like, oh, great.

And I think I said something like, you know, I made some offhand comment like, oh, maybe they, you know, you know, I could jump in for two minutes just like as a joke.

And then she's like, oh, yeah, actually.

It was Ally that it was.

Of course she.

Because I think I mentioned that.

And of course her, you know, she gets an idea, then it's like, oh, you know, I'm gonna go.

I know what I'll do, I'll go reach right back out to them and set up an interview for you.

And I'm like, wait, but, but this was really.

You're like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

That's, that's how a lot of things go here.

It's usually, oh, what about this?

And she'll be like, oh, let me run with it.

And I'm like, it's like, but it's great.

I really appreciate that you took the time to talk to me and I was happy to share.

Oh, that's awesome.

Well, thanks, Katie.

Thank you so much.

Until next time, guys.

See ya.

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Sa.