S6E5: She Started Dating Again After Breast Cancer — Here’s What Happened

Welcome to the Besties with Breasties podcast.

I'm Beth Wilmes, author, speaker, and founder of a human investment organization otherwise known as a nonprofit called Faith Through Fire.

Our mission is to reduce the fear and anxiety breast cancer patients feel and replace it with hope and a path toward thriving.

I'm Jess, a mom of two, former college soccer player, elementary PE teacher, and fitness enthusiast.

I was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer just before my 40th birthday.

And I'm Jamie, researcher, retired professional boxer and breast cancer survivor who keeps life busy and joyful with a funny farm of animals, a loving family, and a big heart to serve others.

This podcast is about our experiences with

breast cancer and life after as young survivors and moms.

Hey, girl.

How are you?

Hey, how are you?

I'm great.

I'm doing good.

I'm doing good.

We're talking about a topic that you and I know very little about anymore.

I. I actually completely agree with that.

I.

From what I hear, it's rough out there.

Yeah, yeah, we're talking about dating, folks.

I'll tell you what, there's nothing that strikes more fear in me than the idea of having to go back out there, put myself out there, and date.

And that led me to kind of want to talk to breast cancer survivors who are out there doing it post diagnosis.

So today we're going to talk to a fellow Faith Through Fire member named Michelle.

She's a super fun gal, and she's on the dating scene.

And so first we're going to hear Michelle's story, then how she felt about

herself before and after cancer, and finally,

what it's like dating after the diagnosis.

But before we do that, let's hear from our first sponsor.

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Well, welcome, Michelle.

Thanks so much for being here.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm super excited.

Well, tell everybody that's listening.

Kind of an abbreviated version of your breast cancer journey.

When were you diagnosed?

How did you find out?

What did you have to have done?

Okay, well, we're going to rewind.

I'm about nine years out.

I was diagnosed.

Um, I found a lump myself doing a self test that I read a tweet from my nephew.

Like, you know, it was October breast cancer awareness month too.

Let me just park that there.

So anyway, I was like, hey, you know, get checked out.

Have you done your.

Your self exam?

And I'm like, oh, my gosh.

Well, when do I need it?

So fast forward, I do this exam, I'm 39 at that time, and then I find a lump and I'm like, oh, I must be crazy.

No.

And I was seeing someone at that time too, for a hot minute.

And, you know, then confirm that.

Okay.

Yeah, we do feel like.

What's going on?

So fast forward got diagnosed in San Francisco.

It very difficult to get in to see people during breast cancer awareness month too.

I just got really lucky because all your appointments are backed up.

They're bringing everybody in from like, oh, Salesforce is coming in and we're here at this school doing breast cancer exams.

So ended up coming to St. Louis, got diagnosed at UCSF, came back to St. Louis to do treatment at SSM with Dr. Baer was my breast surgeon, and Dr. Beatty at Bolton Lake, St. Louis.

So that is.

It was ERPR positive.

There was, you know, some mid to high levels on score right on that border.

What treatment, what.

What stage did they diagnose you with?

2.

2.

I'm trying to grasp it.

So 2B.

2B.

I was gonna say.

That's what I was.

I was 2B.

But if you were 2A, you're one letter ahead of me.

I think so.

I think it was 2A, but maybe I was 2B.

It's been so long.

I think it was 2A.

Yeah, I started at 2A and then they.

They were like, oh, no, you're to be.

Which at the time, you know, now I look back and I think, whatever, you know, a B, whatever.

But yeah, it was devastating to go from an A to a B at that moment.

Which.

Which just tells you what the journey is like.

So what treatment did you end up having?

So I ended up doing a double mastectomy and chemotherapy.

Okay.

I did taxil and Red Devil.

Just started with Red Devil and then ended with Taxol.

Didn't have to do radiation, you know, and they did.

We did have to go back in and remove part of my nipple and some lymph nodes, because I had surgery in December, actually.

Wow.

Nine years ago, like, the other day.

And then I had to go back in right around New Year's.

I remember that.

And I was bummed because they're like, hey, we found.

You know, we need to go back and clean a little bit more out.

We found a few more things.

And you're like, what?

No, but get it out.

You know?

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's pretty typical when they tell you you're done.

Oh, wait, no, no, you're not.

Well, you mentioned you were dating, like, at this time.

Was the person that you were dating, were they with you throughout this whole thing, or did you guys break up shortly thereafter?

Like, fill me in on that.

On that.

Spill the tea, as the kids say.

Oh, it's good.

It's good tea.

There's lots of twists and turns, but I'll try and be brief.

So I was dating someone, this guy in San Francisco, and we ended up not staying together.

He was there with me during diagnosis, and that was maybe our second time kind of dating, dating.

And we had taken a trip, and I realized I was going to have to break up with him.

But with that being said, we were friends, right?

Like, and we just knew.

And I knew I had to go back to St. Louis for treatment, but I was also, at that time, because you're not exclusive.

And when you're dating, the dating pool, it's just, you know, it is.

What are you doing?

Right.

Like, there's people, exes.

So I kind of started dabble.

Dabbling back in and talking to someone on and off, which kind of helps, but then really didn't, because then you're like, why am I.

Why am I talking to these losers?

So you end up really have to rely on family and friends.

So we won't go into that because that's a whole probably rated R version.

So hold on.

I want to pause here so that I fully understand this.

This craziness.

So are you saying, like, you were going through treatment, you break up with your previous boyfriend, and you were still, like, kind of, like, tinkering with dating while you were going through treatment before you finally Were like, no, I'm just going to rely on family.

Okay.

So we, we were exclusive.

We were dating monogamously, and we just fizzled out.

Right.

We stayed friends, and there was somebody from my past before him that bounced, you know, revolving door like elf.

Okay.

So then I was kind of talking to him as a support system for a hot minute, right.

And then got mad at him because obviously we both had different intentions and where his head would not be in the same state anyway.

And just, you know, I have a child.

There's a lot of other things going on.

Right.

So you just really realize that, no, you're not actively dating.

I was not actively dating at that time.

I was kind of still talking to someone here and there.

So I think the last time I saw him was before.

So he did see me.

Yes.

So before surgery and then after surgery, which that's kind of always, you know, you're like, I'm going to have implants.

What's going on?

Going on.

And, you know, I actually liked my boobs, so I was like, no.

And well, that's what I want to dig into.

I, I.

Because I know you a little bit, Michelle, and you don't seem to suffer from low self esteem, so.

And if you really liked your boobs prior to breast cancer, I'm just wondering how all that came into play, like, after you had to have a double mastectomy and then like, started dating and everything.

Like, I am pretty fascinated.

I won't speak for Jess, but because we were talking about in the pre, like, before you hopped on, just, like, how the idea of dating right now just honestly gives me so much anxiety.

So I'm just fascinated to know, like, what it's like out there and how you felt pre versus post.

But before we dive into all that, do you guys want to do bibs in the news?

Oh, yes, please.

All right.

Boobs in the news is a fun segment where we read funny tweets by real people or ridiculous news stories.

Bibs in the news.

Bibs in the news.

Bibs in the news.

All right, you guys ready for this?

Yeah.

You're going to have an opinion on this, I have a feeling, because I feel like you both are fit people.

So this, the title of this is Fit Man Nearly killed by his Energy Drink habit.

What happened when his body finally crashed?

So first question for you gals are, do you ever drink energy drinks?

I have, and I don't anymore.

I have in the past, but not very often.

But I did have about two months within this last year where I was drinking Celsius, those Celsius drinks.

Okay.

How about you, Jess?

Are you an energy drink person?

Sometimes I do some.

I feel like I have a love hate relationship with them.

Like sometimes I'm like, oh, like I think it's like just something like different to taste other than water.

But then like, I don't know that I really like the way that it makes me feel.

So.

Oh, I don't know.

Well, I never drink them.

I think they taste gross.

And my, my distaste for energy drinks goes all the way back to college when everybody was doing Red Bulls and vodkas and I, I was just like, who's drinking this for, for fun value?

This is disgusting.

So I have always disliked energy drinks.

I don't think they taste good, I think they make you feel weird.

So I've always been anti energy drink.

But my husband, especially when he has a long drive for work, he gets the coffee ones.

And it was funny because he just came to me the other day, he goes, do you know what's the worst thing to drink out of anything you can drink?

He's like, worse than soda, worse than alcohol.

And I said, what?

And he said, energy drinks.

He goes, I just read this article and I said, oh, that doesn't surprised me at all.

But 64% of Gen Zers drink energy drinks.

So the problem is, is that they cause heart problems, anxiety, insomnia, headaches, and of all things, dental issues, which I was not aware of.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So there's this guy, he was in the UK, he's pretty fit, he's in the 50s.

He got treated for extremely high blood pressure and a stroke and he started feeling numbness and weakness in his left side and he basically had this massive stroke.

And so when he went to the hospital, his blood pressure was like 254 over 150.

And then his blood pressure just would not come down.

So the short story is he finally confesses to the medical staff that he was crushing an average of eight energy drinks per day.

What?

Eight?

Eight?

That is next level.

Yes.

That's 1300 milligrams of caffeine, which is over three times the recommended maximum intake, which is like the max that they tell you to do is 400 milligrams.

So he says that he's still feeling the side effects even years after quitting.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

Isn't that crazy?

That's so crazy.

That is so unbelievable.

So just like for comparison, a standard eight ounce cup of coffee has roughly 100 milligrams.

And you're only supposed to have 400 in a day, so that's four cups of coffee.

And I can tell you I'm probably right there as far as my coffee intake.

I probably consume four cups of coffee a day.

So I'm already maxing out and this guy is, he's going 1300.

I mean he probably like was like shaking all the time, I would think.

I, I mean, I wonder though if, if it's like alcohol, do you build up a tolerance?

Oh, I don't know.

I don't know.

So the sales for energy drinks in 2024 was $80 billion and it's expected to reach 125 billion by 2030.

So I feel like we have a lot of tired people out there.

That.

Yeah, I mean it, I think it's become very common.

I mean I feel like I see everybody drinking, chugging.

An energy, an energy drink.

Yes.

Well, I. Gen Z.

And she has energy drinks.

She drinks them.

Yeah.

Oh, I, I think it's a big thing with them.

So I mean I don't think there's any mystery as to who the boob is.

I feel like this man should have known that eight energy drinks a day was not going to yield a positive result.

I don't know, am I being, am I being too harsh?

No.

All right, sir, all right.

Fit 50s from the UK.

You the boob.

You the boob.

That's hilarious.

Bibs in the news, bibs in the news.

Bibs in the n. All right, and we're back.

So Michelle, I want to know, I want to talk self esteem because I got to be honest with you, most women's self esteem takes a hit once they have reconstructive surgery and you know, all the side effects that come from treatment.

So how did you feel about yourself prior to breast cancer and then how did you find yourself feeling after?

Yeah, it was definitely, it is a mind game, I think afterwards.

Especially when you're intimate too.

I mean, and not.

I would think that would be the same whether you are in a long term relationship or it's someone you know just recently you're dating or what have you.

Well, you know, you say that but like one thing we hear all the time from our single ladies is like they're jealous of long term relationships because they're like, well your, your person's gonna love you no matter what.

I have to worry about this new person.

Like, you know, I think it's just this massive fear of rejection.

Yeah, yeah, I could see.

Well and it's also all the other Things coming into fact.

You're alone, going through treatment, right.

Your body's been changed.

Now you don't.

I mean, just your hormones are off.

So it's just.

We're all just a hot mess.

So did you have.

Because I. I think of you as somebody as.

Of having pretty high self esteem.

Is that accurate or not?

Thank you.

I try.

I had.

I usually do.

Every now and then there may be a bad day or a dark cloud that's swings through, but.

Yeah, usually.

But I am human too, right?

And you look at your body and that's just anything with aging.

You're like, oh, my gosh, where'd that come from?

Or in my case, I did have.

I did lose part of my nipple when they had to go back in.

So all I heard was Dr. Mills saying that he was going to give me a new nipple.

So I had to create a new nipple.

So now I wish I would have had both of them taken off because now I have two permanents.

You know, Kim Kardashian has perma nips in her bras, but I don't know about that.

Like, I'm constantly taping my no for like, no, thank you.

I don't even know what that is.

You have to explain what the.

The.

Well, you know, you're like, I lost part.

I had lost my nipple.

So that you have good nipples.

You can make another nipple from your other nipple.

And I was like, oh.

So he went back in.

And now what ends up happening?

I mean, because your.

Your breasts end up staying cold, right?

For the most part.

Because with the implants.

So then you have a hard nipple.

It's a permanent, is what.

Oh, I gotcha.

That makes sense.

It depends where you're at.

You know, some ladies don't care about it.

Don't write Pam Anderson all the way.

And then I was making a joke because Kim Kardashian and her skims line invented bras with nipples in them.

I.

Okay, so I got it.

Yes.

Yes.

I actually went to like a breast cancer conference and we had a table there for Faith through Fire.

And one of the booths was like permanent nipples within the, like, bras and lingerie so that you're nipping out on purpose.

And the girl that was manning the booth was wearing them all day, every day.

And so like, she had on this really thin shirt with these, like, very, like, prominent nipples.

And I just.

I mean, I don't know how people do that because I could not stop looking at them.

Like, you know, like, I was like laser focused in on her chest the entire time.

Well, and plus with art, with our situation, if you get a double mastectomy, you know, they always sit up higher, right?

So they're already up there.

They're already.

You can tell implants versus not.

I mean right now with opposite sex, you have boob guys, but guys, right, whatever.

So some may be more fixated on.

I don't want to draw any more attention with my permanent sticking out unless I'm in, you know, it's the beach, whatever, it's address something, you know, have you.

But I always try and just limit me, limit mine.

But that's just my personal thing.

But like self esteem wise.

Yeah, it does it, you know, it does make you wonder.

But I think it's more of a you problem like us thinking, you know, just being judgmental on ourselves.

Because at the end of the day, in my experience with dating, the guy does not care, right?

Like they, your partner, whoever, your guy, girl, whatever.

They.

They like you for you.

There's.

They're attracted to your mind or your wit or however you meet, if you've matched an app or friend or whatever.

There's got to be that chemistry there for somewhat first and foremost, right?

So you don't just have to be like, oh, hey, you know, like, well,

that's what I was going to ask you next.

Like when do you bring it up?

Do you tell them right out of the gate or do you let.

Do you let that chemistry develop before you say something?

Well, it really, you know, the two.

Because I haven't really dated a lot of different folks.

Men.

Okay.

Right now the roster is empty and I'm done and I'm retired.

And that's great for.

I'm taking a pause.

It's, you know, it's a slippery slope out there right now.

But the two different experiences that I can relate to is one guy who I would, I would place him as an ex until recently when we've been exclusive on and off.

And he was just.

No, that's.

He's a boob guy, right.

So he just thought they were the best things.

Like he just.

I had to tell him that I had cancer, but it didn't come up because of my boobs.

And he in no way, shape or form did not like them or think anything of them.

Like he thought they were great.

But it came up more or less dating.

Just if you're talking right about your life and normal, you're not jumping in like, oh, hey, double mastectomy.

It's just, you know, like, hey, what?

Oh, this last year I had, you know, I did X, Y and Z, or I had treatment or, oh, I had to go back to, you know, St. Louis to do treatment.

And I'll just slide it in that way.

But it's not, it's not a deal breaker.

And I think it's always going to be more of a you problem, meaning, like internally with the per.

Yourself.

Right.

Because we're our worst critic.

I mean, that's what I want to tell women when they're beating themselves up and worrying about it.

But I again, sometimes feel like if you've been in a long term, like I've been married to my husband for like 20 plus years.

I think they're kind of like, you don't know what it's like, which is true.

So I've always kind of, you know, hesitated to be like, I think that most of this is in our own heads.

But to your point, Michelle, I don't think it's that different when you're in a committed relationship.

You know, you're still self conscious, you're still wondering if they're just being nice.

Right.

Like, it's just the way that we're wired as women and it's just, it's a mental game that you really have to learn how to kind of rewire your brain around.

Agree 100%.

Yeah, it's like, it's, it's a, it's a you problem that we have.

And not, you know, not even from.

Just more of learning too and just really taking a pause.

And now, I mean, it's been nine, ten years for me.

Nine years when I was diagnosed.

So you do move forward whether you're in a relationship or not or single.

You know, you just have to push through and just know that your body will change too.

Especially for new listeners listening now.

Give it a year.

Let, Give it two years.

Right?

Let yourself get back together because you're on medicine.

Maybe, maybe you are, maybe you're not.

Maybe steroids, you might have swelled up a little bit.

Right.

Our bodies are just gone through the ringer.

So it took me about two years to get my body and I had some multiple surgeries and some things go on too.

So just to get back in the groove and be like, okay, I'm back, I'm back.

I feel good.

I'm ready, let's do this.

And that's when I started swiping again.

Actually, no, that was an organic.

I met that guy at the airport.

Okay, so this is what I want to know.

Next.

Do you have any Funny stories or horror stories about the dating field or anything.

Just like that amuses you when you think back on it regarding the.

The whole dating scene.

Oh, gosh.

Well, like, in your opinion, what is it like out there?

Like, what are you finding?

So I've been an online dater.

I was an early adopter for many years.

And I'll just kind of sum this up pretty fast.

So I was on Tinder before Tinder was a thing here, and like, you know, chat and stuff because, well, I lived in San Francisco at that time, too, and I was doing mobile tech and marketing and things.

So I had my finger on the pulse, right?

And I'm like, oh, what'?

This?

Or, you know, always trying to keep up.

Like, you hear your.

Your kids.

What are your kids?

Well, you're on this app, Snapchat.

What's this?

Let me see it.

Right.

So I would say that with that, it's just a lot more instant gratification.

It's really.

It's.

Their behaviors have changed because of our technology.

Matt, you can swipe through a thousand profiles, right?

And you don't just keep going until you find someone, or they're not.

They're not replying back fast enough or it's just.

It's really a dangerous time to be dating.

It really truly is.

And people are fatigued, just like with marketing in their business.

Because I was just gonna say for.

So I'm trying to grasp, like, what you're saying.

So are you saying that the instant gratification, like, because they can swipe so many profiles in one sitting, they're not even taking the time to really investigate a relationship before they're making a determination and moving on.

Yeah.

You're talking to a lot of people when you're dating, especially online now.

Right?

You're talking.

And that's how it was in 2012, 2013.

Well, 2014, I would say, really started maybe 2014.

Ish.

And now it's even grown more.

Right.

It started out in different age demographics.

It might have been with millennials first downloading Tinder and Snapchat, and then it filters up right through Gen Z and this and that and all that.

So we're all adopting to these behaviors.

And I think that the technology has changed our behaviors, just like it's caused us to be addicted to our phones.

Right.

Or with kids or looking at things.

And you have 1.8 seconds now to stop a scroll when you're online to catch a user's attention if you're trying to sell a product or service.

So for men or women.

And I have single sides on men and women, single friends, men and women.

It's more of a woman problem where they're having a hard time with the men.

My guy, single friends, I don't know if they're just disconnected sometimes or it's a pattern that they just.

Women, I feel like, want more emotional support.

Right.

They're looking for a partner.

It's just.

That's how I feel with my single group friends.

Just listening to his talk.

But it's just really, you don't know.

I mean, you have.

You have people who are married cheating on their spouses on.

Are we dating the same guy in St. Louis.

Right.

Or so many friends have unfortunately been, you know, separated now because they caught their spouse cheating on that.

You know, I mean, this is just kind of where we're at and it's.

It's sad.

Sad.

So do you feel like you're finding, like, women are looking for that emotional commitment and kind of that depth and men are looking at more transactional?

Yeah, I do.

And I think I date, like, for me, in my past experience too, it's high achievers that, you know, so they're very busy with work.

Like, I've date successful guys and smart individuals and that's what I like.

Just, you know, I need someone to keep me on my toes and let's go conquer the world.

But they also.

It might be more of.

I ignored red flags too.

Right.

Like, now I know from learning whether it's therapy or online or what have you, like, okay, how's your relationship with your parents?

You know?

Right.

And now you're like, ah, I see the common denominator there.

Right.

So when the time comes and I'm not opposed to dating, I just know that, you know, I've also lived a very fun and colorful life.

And right now it's okay to take a pause.

And when the time comes or if it's organically, that's great, you know, like.

But it is hard for.

I have a lot of single girlfriends and it's hard for them because they're just so let down with these dating apps and nobody wants to go out to the bar.

You know, you're just in different things, phases in your life.

So that's interesting.

It sounds.

It sounds like the issue is not even remotely like the breast cancer.

It's more just about finding somebody that you're compatible with that shares the same values as you.

Like, it sounds like that's the bigger challenge than the actual breast cancer itself.

Oh, yeah.

I definitely think in the beginning, though, after, when you're going through treatment and stuff, things of that nature, I mean, I would not.

There's just so much going on.

Like, you don't have time to date, right?

You're like, oh, I have to go this doctor's appointment.

I need to do this.

And do you have children or not?

Right.

That may play a factor, too.

So you're filling your cup with other things than trying to get out there and trying to date and even afterwards.

But, yeah, dating.

No, I'm burnt out.

I should have my own dating podcast, okay.

Because all my red flags always come true.

And they all come back and tell me.

They're like, oh, my gosh, girlfriend, he did it.

And I'm like, I told you.

I told you.

You did not.

Listen, you're.

You need to be like the dating psychic that tells all your girlfriends, hey, danger, Danger, Right?

Oh, yeah.

I can read a text.

And I'll be like, no.

Red flag.

Oh, look at that.

Right flag.

Nope.

Swipe left.

Nope, nope, nope.

I'm like, no, absolutely.

He's so cute.

Yeah.

No.

All right, well, on that note, we're.

I want to close out with your final words of encouragement to anybody.

Listen.

Listening.

That's kind of thinking about dating post cancer.

But before we do that, let's hear from our second sponsor.

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All right, Michelle, thank you so much for being here.

Is there any.

Do you have any final words that you want to leave with our listeners today?

Thank you so much for having me, Jess and Beth.

This was a fun, fun chat.

I think we could talk hours about this.

We'll just have to do it in person next time at one of our events, right?

100%.

Yes.

I would love that.

You just.

Yeah, you just have to keep going.

It will get better.

And it's okay if you have a bad day to where you're not happy with where something's going wrong, whether it's work or your body or these thinking about dating.

Just take a pause.

Take a pause.

Take a moment.

The next day will get better.

Oh, I love that thank you so much for being here.

Until next time guys.

See ya.

Thank you for being a listener of the Besties with Breasties podcast.

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