S6E4: From Cringe to Compassion: Mastering Communication During Cancer

Welcome to the Besties with Breasties podcast.

I'm Beth Wilmes, author, speaker and founder of a human investment organization otherwise known as a nonprofit called Faith Through Fire.

Our mission is to reduce the fear and anxiety breast cancer patients feel and replace it with hope and a path toward thriving.

I'm Jess, a mom of two, former college soccer player, elementary PE teacher and fitness enthusiast.

I was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer just before my 40th birthday.

And I'm Jamie, researcher, retired professional boxer and breast cancer survivor who keeps life busy and joyful with a funny farm of animals, a loving family, and a big heart to serve others.

This podcast is about our experiences with

breast cancer and life after as young survivors and moms.

Hey, Jess.

Hey.

How are you?

I am so good.

I'm pretty pumped about our guest today.

I like her so much.

And we're gonna be talking about a topic that probably every single survivor I've ever talked to has experienced.

It's about those awkward, cringe worthy moments where people say the wrong thing in your cancer journey.

So do you recall any of those moments in your own journey?

Oh, so many.

Really, so many.

Yes.

And I mean, I.

What was the worst?

Well, the worst was when people would tell me about their aunt or a family member that or their friend that had gone through breast cancer and then they died or they walked around.

So many people do that.

It is so weird.

I had this lady, literally, I found out I had breast cancer.

I was in church, I think two days later and she sees me.

I don't know how word traveled that fast, but it did.

And she buzzed up to me and that was her conversation was, oh, my mom had the exact same breast cancer as you and she died.

And I was just like, in what world do you think that that's an appropriate thing to say to somebody?

Thank you for telling.

Makes me feel not good.

So bizarre.

So anyway, today we're going to be talking to a Faith through Fire member, Meg, who's a young survivor and has been there, done that.

So first we're going to hear about Meg's story.

Then we're going to hear about what she encountered along the way in terms of misunderstanding or awkward moments.

And finally, how we can respond with grace, humor and boundaries.

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All right, welcome, Meg.

Thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely.

Okay, so give us a brief version of your story.

How old are you?

What was happening in your life at the time you were diagnosed, and what treatment did you do?

So I am now 31, but I was diagnosed when I was 30.

I had just had my second son, Callaway, in September.

I had felt a lump when I was pregnant, and I just kept chalking it up to being a clogged duck or something weird with my body being pregnant.

And then I delivered my son, and I kept feeling it in the shower, and I kept saying things to people, and everybody was like, no, it's probably just a clogged duck.

And I kept being like, well, I've had one of those, and they really hurt, and this doesn't hurt.

Well, fast forward.

In December, I finally called my ob and he was like, I want you to go in right away.

I want you to get a scan.

So I went through a bunch of scans, got a biopsy, found out I had breast cancer.

And then in April is when I got a double mastectomy done.

So my treatment has been double mastectomy.

And then I'm taking tamoxifen now, so.

Yeah.

Okay.

So you had your double mastectomy in April?

Yes.

Okay.

Of this year.

Because I'm like, I know you're fresh out of the gates.

Yep.

So were you surprised at.

Well, first of all, how do people react when you told them you had breast cancer?

Did you get the.

Oh, you're so young.

Because that's.

I got a lot of that, too.

Oh, yeah, I got that.

You're so young, or I can't believe you got it at this age.

Like, usually you get it when you're older, all that good stuff.

How did.

How did that make you feel?

It pissed me off.

Yeah.

It aggravated me because it was like, you know, in my head, I was like.

I was also saying to myself, like, I'm young, but also, like, it cancer clearly does not discriminate on your age.

So it also aggravated me that it took a lot of me pushing in order to get a mammogram, and then it took a lot of me pushing to, like, be.

Like, when they stated that they wanted me to do a biopsy, it was a lot of me pushing that I wanted it.

They were like, I don't know if we really need to.

You're, you know, you have dense boob tissue.

I don't know.

And I was like, no, I want it.

I want it done.

So that really aggravated me, too, with the outcome is, like, how much I had to advocate for myself to get it.

And I always wonder, like, what if I didn't?

Like, where would I have been?

I always think that, too.

I mean, good for you.

Good for you for pushing when you.

But did you intuitively know something was wrong?

Because, like, I felt.

Like, when I felt my lump and the OB dismissed it, I. I, I just could not get rid of that pit in my stomach.

Oh, yeah.

I told my husband right away.

I was like, I. I know it's cancer.

And everybody kept being like, I don't think it is, but I know this sounds crazy, but, like, I would be, like, watching TV and a breast cancer commercial would pop up, or I'd be reading something, and somebody would, like, a breast cancer post would pop up, and I was like, I just have this feeling like, I'm keeping.

I keep getting signs like, I know.

I know it is.

Yeah.

To be fair, I have never, ever paid attention to a single breast cancer reference in my life until after I got diagnosed.

And then it's everywhere.

Yes.

I mean, everywhere to the point where most survivors are pretty triggered.

They can't even, Like, I remember seeing Just, have you seen this?

Like, they.

They've.

I saw an article once where they were suggesting that they ought to put trigger warnings on certain movies or shows if the character had breast cancer or was gonna pass from breast cancer.

Because so many survivors, like, felt bamboozled, like, they started watching something and then it would take a turn.

No.

I mean, yeah, I felt that way.

Yeah.

No, it is.

I actually would ask when I was, like, kind of fresh out of the gate, I would ask friends and family about shows and books before I would watch or read Them because so many times that that would happen to me.

And it.

I was like, okay, I can't watch this anymore.

Yeah, it is really hard.

But it's kind of like the red car.

Every time you think about the red car, you see the red car.

It's this kind of the same thing.

Yeah.

Well, you're looking for it, right?

It's that confirmation bias.

Yeah, but I was the same way.

Like, they were trying to dismiss my lump as a hormone fluctuation during my period.

And I felt it.

I'm like, that is not supposed to be there.

So I mean, good on you for just being aggressive and assertive.

Because you're right.

If you hadn't said, you know, no, I want to pursue this, you know, how long could it have been, you know, before they would have found it?

Yeah, I always ask myself that.

It's like a hole I go down constantly.

So let me ask you because you kind of said it pisses you off.

Like when people say things that are just like, so off base.

Is your personality when.

When something hap.

Like, is anger your go to emotion?

Because like, anger.

A lot of times people say anger is really based in fear.

So is.

Do you feel that way?

Do you feel like your go to emotion when people say something insensitive?

It's just anger or.

Yeah, it's like annoyance.

I get like angry and annoyed.

Like, I'm also.

I only cry when I'm angry.

I don't cry when I'm sad.

It's like, yeah, that's my go to for sure.

I am an angry crier too.

I used to do that.

Like when I would get mad, I mean, I would always tear up and it would make me even madder because that's not the emotion that I equated with being angry.

Right then I felt vulnerable and that pissed me off even more, you know.

So tell me what the most awkward or frustrating thing somebody has said to you before.

I think the most frustrating thing is the constant.

Well, at least you got a free boob job out of it.

And it's like, oh yeah, eight hour surgery, getting my chest reconstructed.

Yeah, that was a free boob job.

That's, you know, it's nothing like a free boob job.

People have literally no concept what a double mastectomy and reconstruction is.

Like, it's kind of amazing.

And I don't have the.

I've never had the guts to be like, go Google it.

I know.

And it's just like they don't understand that.

It's like you're amputating a part of your body.

Like, my breast cancer was in my nipples, so I lost my nipples.

And I don't also have any feeling on my chest.

Like, you could punch me and I wouldn't feel it.

And I'm like, that's like a big thing that makes me sad every time.

I'm like, it's just not being able to, like, feel like myself.

I don't feel like me and, you know, emotional.

Yeah.

And it's like, I didn't want, like, that wasn't even in my car.

In my mind, a free boob job.

Like, I just had a baby.

I wanted to be able to nurse my baby, and I couldn't even do that.

Yeah.

You posted this on our internal online community.

And I think a lot of people kind of sounded off on this, you know, and it's one of those things where you're like, are people just that insensitive or are they that ignorant?

And I really do think it's born out of ignorance.

I don't think they're trying to be a jerk.

But I think I mentioned in this post that we see that in philanthropy a lot.

Like, they just dismiss or dilute the trauma that women go through with breast cancer, maybe because it's so common and we've all been desensitized to it with all the pink ribbon culture, but it's minimalization of what we went through.

And I do remember I have referred to double mastectomies as amputations multiple times.

And when people hear that, it's kind of jarring for them.

It's almost like, no.

And then they think about it and they're like, well, yeah, actually that's what it is.

I mean, when you get rid of a body part, that's an amputation.

And I think that if you framed it like that for people, they would feel maybe differently about it.

I don't know.

Yeah, no, that's definitely good feedback because I just kind of go down the route of like, I push back on, like, well, yeah, an eight hour surgery and, you know, everything I went through and the constant fear I still have after, like, oh, yeah, it was a. I loved it.

I'm so happy I had to get it well.

And I was going to ask you, like, so I never really said anything to people when they got it wrong, mostly because I was too emotionally exhausted to try to explain it to them.

I also hate feeling vulnerable and, like, telling them how difficult it really is.

Just felt like I'm really working on that as a human Being to just feel my emotions.

But it sounds like you're willing to kind of go there with people and to let them know, like, what it really is about.

Yeah.

I think growing up, I used to be, like, the quiet person or the people pleaser and, like, not wanting to make people feel uncomfortable.

And I started therapy a long time ago.

I'm a big lover of therapy.

And in my years of therapy, I've learned, like.

Like, when people ask you, how are you?

I don't just say, oh, I'm good.

Like, now I'll be like, ah, I'm all right.

Like, I want to be honest and straightforward because I'm not always good.

And then when I'm not good, I need people to help me because I'm not going to ask them for help.

So I need those people to know, like, okay, she is struggling right now.

We need to pick her up kind of thing.

Well, and I mean, think about that.

If somebody says to me, I'm doing all right, my first response to that is, oh, what's going on?

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I'm not gonna be like, cool.

Although there are plenty of people.

Jess and I just got done with a podcast where we kind of talk about Midwest.

Nice.

Where everybody kind of doesn't like to air their own.

Their dirty laundry.

And it's like, if somebody's to share something hard, sometimes people are like, they.

They'll change the subject or, you know, avert their eyes because they don't know how to handle true emotion.

Yeah.

And I think that's a Midwest thing.

Like, we don't know how to handle actual human emotion, which is so messed up.

Yeah.

I think people just are uncomfortable.

They don't really know what to say.

They haven't been through it themselves, so they don't have the experience to kind of draw from.

And so it's just.

It kind of makes these weird and awkward moments.

Yeah.

How do you guys feel about, like, we talked about it when people say, oh, you're so young, and things like that, but I.

The one thing I could not stand, and this just goes for my life in general, is pity.

Right.

Or how do you feel about the you're so strong comments?

I mean, they annoy me.

I, like, I know it comes from a good place, so I never, like, you know, push back, but it just.

Thank you.

But, like, I don't want to be strong.

There's times where I don't want to have to be strong.

And it's.

It's just.

I don't know In a way, it just made.

I don't want people's pity.

Like, I don't need that, you know?

Yeah.

I think, like, you're so strong.

My.

My thought it wouldn't make me mad, but my thought was I don't really have a choice.

You know, the idea is either you crumble, right.

Which I don't think is good for you, mentally or physically, or you have to be strong.

So it's kind of one of those things where I wouldn't have chosen to be there.

So I don't know.

The.

You're so strong.

I mean, I suppose it depends, too, for me, if it comes with sincerity.

Sometimes it's just something that people say, but I never feel good when I feel like a tragedy instead of a person, because I think pity can feel isolating.

You know, it's.

It's like a. I don't know.

People confuse empathy with sympathy.

Empathy is like, hey, I'm with you.

I don't know what this is like, but I'm here for you.

Like, just.

I'm in the.

I'm in the pit with you.

And pity.

Pity is more like, I'm glad it's not me.

Yeah.

And I don't know, you know, that.

That.

That could be very, very hard.

I may or may not have shared this on a previous podcast, but I had.

Shortly after I was diagnosed, I had a friend that was pretty insensitive, made some comments about, oh, I was just talking to my husband about how lucky we are that nothing like this has ever happened to us.

And at the time, it really felt like a gut punch.

Like, I was just like, wow, that's.

Yeah, I know it sucks to be me.

Like, I wouldn't want to be me either.

And it kind of hurt my feelings.

But you know what was really interesting about that is that not that long after that, they found out that their daughter was being molested.

And what that told me, like, what that reminded me is that you never.

Life changes so quickly, right?

Like, so many things happen to so many people all the time, and if you're fortunate enough to where nothing tragic has happened to you, then thank God, you know?

But also, it's just.

I don't know, it's just a reminder to me because at the time, I remember feeling jealous of her.

Like, I felt jealous in that moment.

Like, yeah, I. I used to be able to say that.

Right.

And now I can't.

But hard things happen to everybody.

And I don't know, it's just that.

That pity.

I felt that pity from her at the time.

And then, you know, it just makes you realize that it can flip on a dime and anybody can be, you know, fall victim to difficult circumstances.

So do you guys.

Meg, do you ever feel like people looked at you differently after your diagnosis?

Oh, yes.

I felt like, honestly, it was the loneliest time of my life because I felt like everybody walking around me thought I was going to break in front of them or like, anything they said would, like, trigger me.

And I feel like during that time, all you want is to feel normal.

And I felt like everybody was like, you know, like, I would have my dad love him to death, but he would call me and just start crying.

You know, growing up, my dad wasn't the lovey dovey kind of guy.

And every day he would call me, crying and saying, I love you.

And it's like, I love this, but I don't love it now.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, because you're doing it because you assume I'm gonna die.

Like, yeah, exactly.

And I kept even.

I would even say that on the phone.

I would be like, dad, I'm not dying.

Like, it's okay.

Like, you know.

But also, it was hard, too, because then I had to worry about.

I didn't want to make people feel uncomfortable either.

So it was like that weird middle, like, gray area of, like, people.

I felt like, kind of distanced themselves from me because they didn't know what to say.

They didn't know, you know, what to do for me, because I'm not somebody that's good at taking help.

It was just a very.

It was a very isolating time.

I want to talk about that a little bit more, because I do think that there's something that happens a lot of times where we find ourselves.

We're in the most traumatic moment of our lives, and we find ourselves in a position of trying to comfort other people, which also feels emotionally draining.

And I want to touch on that a little bit.

But before we do that, Jess, you want to.

You guys want to do Boobs in the News?

Yes.

Let's do it.

Boobs in the News is a fun segment where we read funny tweets by real people or ridiculous news stories.

Bibs in the news.

Bibs in the news.

Boobs in the news.

All right, which one did we decide on, Jess?

We had two to pick from.

I think we have to go with your situation.

Okay, so, Meg, you were.

So we recorded a podcast prior to yours, and I am the boob in this story.

I'm gonna tell you this straight out.

So, Jess, And I are recording, we're having this conversation, and I start smelling something burning.

And I'm thinking to myself, maybe it's the furnace.

You know, sometimes when the furnace kicks on, it smells a little burnt, but it's getting stronger and stronger, and I can't figure out what it is.

And I'm trying to maintain composure, right?

Cause Jess and I are bantering back and forth, and all of a sudden, I look down and I use my husband's office to do this podcast.

And.

And my husband has one of those coffee burner things that you plug in to where it keeps your coffee warm, you know, like when you place it on there.

So I had inadvertently put the tape on top of the coffee burner, and I didn't know it was on.

So the tape is smoking.

The whole room smells like burnt electrical.

And I'm trying to, like, put it out and unplug it while I'm doing the podcast with Jess.

And I'm like, if this isn't, like, a chemo brain moment.

And now my husband's going to come back to his office and the tape is melted.

The freaking coffee thing doesn't smell right.

He's going to be so mad at me.

I just think it's so funny that, like, this whole.

That whole time, I didn't even know

that anything was going on.

You just maintained your composure.

And, I mean, I'm a professional.

Just.

This is.

You're a professional podcaster.

I'm professional.

I don't let anything.

Now, if I would have seen flames, I probably would have had to put a stop to the podcast and gotten the fire extinguisher.

But thankfully, I figured it out.

But I'm sitting there post Covid.

I don't have a great sense of smell.

Like, it's the running joke in my family, because I don't smell anything.

Which, to my.

I'll be honest with you, I find the positives in any situation, and I have found it to be a great asset that I can't smell bad things.

So that just tells you how strong it was in the room, because I was like, something's burning.

So there's your boobs.

It's me.

Bibs and the knees.

Fibs and the knees.

Bibs and the knees.

Okay, so we're back.

I want to talk about how it feels when we, as the person going through something really hard, have to feel responsible for other people's emotions.

You just mentioned, Meg, that you kind of felt like that when your dad would call you crying.

Now you're trying to reassure him.

And it makes you feel a little bit icky because you know he's crying when he never has before, and that makes you feel insecure about your prognosis.

Jess, have you ever felt responsible for somebody else's emotional state while you're trying to focus on yourself during treatment?

I feel like.

I know.

I feel like I did.

I think, like, it's like you kind of.

Meg was kind of saying this earlier.

Like, you want to be, like, strong, and you don't want to require people to help you.

And so I kept feeling like I was saying, I got this.

Don't worry about me.

I'll be fine.

I'll be fine.

Because, like, the pity eyes, the sad eyes, just really struck a chord.

Like, I didn't like that.

And so I think it was always, I got this, you guys, don't worry about me kind of mentality in my head.

So I didn't like wigs.

Like, when I lost all my hair, I tried a wig for maybe a couple hours and I was like, this is for the birds.

Like, it was hot and itchy, and I was just like, no, it's not happening.

So I chucked the wig and I would wear hats mostly, or a scarf.

That's what I would wear on my head.

And, well, knowing, like, I was kind of ashamed, right?

Like, I wanted to hide it, but in the privacy of my own home.

At home, I was bald all the time.

I mean, unless my head got cold and I needed, like a cap, you know, just to warm up.

Like, I was always bald at home because it was the most comfortable state to be in.

I wasn't worried about my family seeing me like that, my immediate family.

But I'll never forget.

I forget why, but I went to my parents house and my scarf or my hat was bothering me.

My head was super sensitive, and I took it off mid conversation with my parents.

And I could just see the shock because they hadn't seen me like that.

And they were so uncomfortable and to the point where I put it back on.

Like, they didn't say anything, but I could just tell that they were super uncomfortable and it made them sad.

And I just remember thinking, oh, I need to put this back on so they don't feel weird or bad about it.

And then I thought, how interesting.

You know what I mean, that I feel responsible for other people's reactions to this.

You know, it's just.

It's just interest.

It's an interesting.

I wasn't upset about it, per se.

I was just really kind of Fascinated by this idea that I felt responsible for how other people were handling my tragedy, so to speak, you know?

Yeah, I definitely think that that is normal.

Yeah.

You know, like, we all kind of do that.

We kind of even maybe try to, like, minimize the situation a little bit when it is severe, just to make people more comfortable.

Because it's uncomfortable for us when other people are comfortable or uncomfortable to us.

Does that make sense?

It's uncomfortable for us when other people are uncomfortable.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah, it is.

Like, I felt that way with my parents.

I'm like, you're my parents.

And I feel a little bit awkward right now, having exposed myself and then seeing that, it makes you feel uncomfortable, you know, like, that felt like I was.

I don't know, there was a vulnerability there that I felt exposed and maybe just.

I don't know.

It's a really interesting emotion, and I still remember it.

So obviously it stuck with me.

So what do you.

What do you think, Meg?

How do you feel?

Because you're still fresh in it.

Like, are you still.

Still feeling.

What is your emotional state right now?

I would say right now I'm just drained.

That's how I feel.

Like, trying to be a mom of two boys.

And then, you know, I just had another surgery a few weeks ago because I had some buildup scar tissue that they were a little worried about.

They wanted to get it cleaned up.

So it's just like, my life doesn't slow down.

And that's like, another hard part is, like, you know, I have my husband or my parents being like, you can't be doing this.

You.

You need to, like, rest.

And it's like, I don't have the life that I can just rest.

I have two.

Two under two.

I, you know, I gotta be a mom.

I gotta keep my house afloat, like, without me.

Love my husband, but without me, like, laundry's not getting done, my house isn't staying clean, and I like a clean house.

So I think it's just, like, I'm emotionally drained and I'm ready for 2026.

I'm ready for 2025 to be over.

Yeah, that fresh light.

How do you feel like people can best support you now in survivorship?

What are you.

What are you hoping from people?

I'm hoping that, like, people just continue to show up for me and not like.

Like, my close people know I'm never going to be like, hey, will you come help me with this?

Or, hey, just showing up, like, for instance, the run, like, a group of my girlfriends didn't I didn't even know they signed up until I, like, looked and I texted them, and I was like, oh, my gosh, you guys signed up?

And they were like, yeah, we knew you weren't gonna, like, push it on us, so we just did it.

So, like, just making it, being, like, just showing up for me and not, you know, making me, I don't know, have to, like, go out of my comfort zone to be like, hey, I know I had cancer, and I know it made you uncomfortable, but, like, can we still hang out?

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Those are good friends.

That's the kind of friends you want when they just show up without even being asked.

Yeah, no, I, I, I honestly think this past year, I've really realized how to ask for help, but I've really realized who, who my people are, because I feel like when you go through something like this, you really realize who's there for you through the hard times and the good times.

Like, I knew I had a lot of people there for the good times, but I've really learned who's there for me, especially during these hard times.

That's interesting.

The podcast that we've taped right before yours was a conversation about friendships and friendships that maybe have faded or evolved or just diminished since cancer.

Did you feel like you, you are.

Did you feel that?

Did you see.

Oh, yeah.

Like, some people you thought would be there weren't, or vice versa?

Yeah, it was like, I think right when I got it, when I got breast cancer and I joined Faith Through Fire, I had messaged Sarah about it because I was saying how, like, one of my friends got upset that I didn't react a certain way.

She wanted me to react at her engagement, but in my brain, I just found out two days before I had breast cancer and I would probably be getting a double mastectomy.

So, like, my brain wasn't there yet, and now we're not friends anymore.

And I've lost friends because they haven't shown up.

But again, like, I think about it in a way of, like, yeah, I've lost friendships, but clearly they weren't the friendships I wanted.

If I love the friends that will be there for the good times, but I want the friends that are going to be there with me during the hard times.

Yeah, that was a big talking point of mine.

It's like, I had a lot of friends, but it did make me realize how many of those friends are superficial friends versus the ones that are going to be there in the clutch.

Right?

Yeah.

And your priorities are just different once You've kind of faced, you know, death or faced, you know, a difficult disease.

You're just like, I don't have time for this.

Yeah.

No.

And like a big thing for me is like, I lost friends because something that would trigger me is when people would be like, well, these.

You know, you're not stage four like my aunt was or, you know, they caught it early, so you're going to be just fine.

You know, you just have to get a surgery.

And I was just at that they would minimize.

Yeah, minimize your trauma.

Exactly.

And like you guys said earlier, you don't know until you go through it.

So don't minimize it that it's nothing.

Because, yeah, I got the surgery, but every day I still, like, I have fear of, like, is something else, you know, going to happen or.

Sure.

I constantly live in fear of, like, waiting for test results and worry of, like, next month when I go in for my scan, is it going to be clean or whatever it is.

Yeah.

Yep.

It's true that people.

But people do not know until they go through something difficult.

And like Jess said, good for them if they've not had to encounter anything hard.

But once you do, man, your eyes are open.

So I want to kind of land on final words.

But before we do that, let's hear from our second sponsor.

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We're back.

What do you.

What do you guys think?

The.

The takeaway is here because I don't want to vilify people who say awkward things because, you know, there's somebody listening.

I can't.

I remember this lady once told me I was her worst case scenario and I was like, oh, okay.

I love being your worst case scenario.

That's awesome.

I don't want to, you know, you know there's gonna be somebody listening to this.

It's like, oh, shoot, I. I said that and I didn't mean that.

And now they feel bad about it.

Is this just something we need to educate people on or is it just something that we need to learn how to just kind of hold with some grace and just not take it personally?

Like, what are Your thoughts?

I know for sure for me, because I've been around people who had cancer before I had it, and I look back and I'm like, I probably said those wrong things or treated them like they were going to break.

So I think it's all, like, remembering to give them grace, but also, like, educating them.

I know something that was big for me is I would talk to my friends that, you know, would say the wrong things, but I would kind of educate them, and then it would kind of get them to start turning and, like, I could see.

See their wheels turning of like, oh, like, I know I'm only 30, but I probably should go get this done just to make sure.

Or if I find or not, like, go get a mammogram, but do, like, their self checks.

But I think it's giving grace and maybe just educating and also reminding yourself that the people that you have in your corner don't have bad intent when they say those things.

I don't think we can underestimate too.

Like, I talk about this all the time.

You know, when you get a cancer diagnosis, you just endured a trauma, like an emotional trauma.

And a trauma brain is not the same as a, Like a rational brain.

And so to be fair to the people that we're kind of ragging on right now, we're hypersensitive in that.

In that timeframe.

Right.

That's why a commercial on breast cancer triggers us or a book triggers us, or any little thing somebody says, you know, infuriates us.

It's like we can't trust ourselves at that moment because we're just so emotionally all over the place.

You agree?

Because I. I think, you know, like, when I say these things now 10 years out, I totally don't feel the same about it as I did, you know, when it was happening.

You know, it's just my brain is calmed down.

Right?

Yeah.

And I probably will feel the same way as, like, time passes.

I'll be like, it's not, you know, it's.

It's something I went through.

It was hard, but, like, it doesn't trigger me like it did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

100.

Yeah.

I also think before we close up here, it's important to, like, when somebody says something to us that's awkward, and it just kind of triggers us to just like, as you're walking away, like, in your head, just, like, thinking, acknowledging it, being like, okay, they didn't really know what they were saying, and now I need to let it go.

And like, just even, like, taking a couple quick little breaths in and then breathing out long and just, like, let it go.

Like, they didn't know what they were saying.

I'm moving on and just making sure to acknowledge it, not, like, keep, like, thinking it over and over in your head.

Because when you keep thinking about it, then it just kind of builds and it grows.

Well, you make a perfect point, Jess.

We talk about this in the bootcamp.

You have to close the trauma loop.

If you leave that loop open, it just sits there, there, and you ruminate on it.

So you're absolutely right to take a mindful moment to basically say out loud that that's not the truth.

Right, right.

Like, they didn't know that they were offending me.

That's not the truth.

And I can let this go.

Yeah, that's.

That is incredibly important and, like, a really good point to make.

So, yeah, I think that's a really good way to land on this.

All right, well, thank you so much, Meg, for being here.

We really appreciate you sharing your story, and I'm going to be seeing you here soon.

So until then, guys, see ya.

Thank you for being a listener of the Besties with Breasties podcast.

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