S6E2: The Moment You Realize Your Body Feels Different After Cancer

Welcome to the Besties With Breasties podcast.

I'm Beth Wilmes, author, speaker, and founder of a human investment organization otherwise known as a nonprofit called Faith Through Fire.

Our mission is to reduce the fear and anxiety breast cancer patients feel and replace it with hope and a path toward thriving.

I'm Jess, a mom of two, former college soccer player, elementary PE teacher, and fitness enthusiast.

I was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer just before my 40th birthday.

And I'm Jamie, researcher, retired professional boxer, and breast cancer survivor who keeps life busy and joyful with a funny farm of animals, a loving family, and a big heart to serve others.

This podcast is about our experiences with.

Breast cancer and life after as young survivors and moms.

Okay.

Hey, guys.

Hey.

Hey.

Did everybody have a good day?

We're doing this a little bit different.

We're recording in the evening instead of what I'm usually used to, which is the morning.

So did everybody have a good.

A good one?

It was a busy one.

Busy.

I'm hoping my thoughts are fresh as they would be in the morning.

Oh, you know, I didn't even consider that.

That you guys were getting me really fresh and, you know, stimulated, and my brain was probably at max capacity in the morning.

Who knows what you're going to get now.

I giggle a lot, so that's all right.

I am.

Yeah.

The more tired you are, the more you giggle.

Good to know.

We'll know that if Jamie needs a nap like girls off her rocker, she.

She giggling all the time.

All right, so I.

We're gonna be talking about learning to love yourself again.

Relationship with self is kind of what I think of, and this is a tough one in survivorship.

I feel like I. I'd be curious.

I don't know if you guys.

Is your first thought when you think relationship to self, is it how you feel about yourself emotionally, or do you.

Is it more about your body?

When you're thinking about loving yourself again, do you go to the physical or more of the mental?

I go to physical especially.

Well, not especially.

I mean, our whole lives were kind of conditioned to think in that vein, but especially after cancer.

That's my first thought, is physical.

Yeah.

Okay.

What about you, Jess?

Yes, that's all I thought this episode was really about, was more the physical side of loving yourself again.

Oh, interesting.

Okay.

What about you, Beth?

I mean, I was leaning toward more the emotional, mental, because I've just resigned myself that as I get older, I'm gonna be in decline.

So I don't know, is that terrible?

I mean, it's not that I don't want to rock and bod, because I do, but not so much so that I will give up Chick Fil A.

So I don't know.

You know, I.

You know, I think that there's.

I think that I probably struggle with both.

If I.

If I was being really, really honest.

So if, like, in one word, what describes how you feel about your body, then today, that is deep.

I feel like my one word is accepting.

Oh, okay.

Yours is positive.

Well, of course it is.

It has, like, evolved to this point.

But, yeah, that would be my word accepting.

Okay.

What about you, Jamie?

Are you as positive as justice?

You know it.

I'm gonna say strong.

Okay.

I. Gosh, I feel like the negative Nelly in the group.

This is terrible.

Got one.

I know.

I guess that's me.

I'm That.

I mean, when I think about my body today, I just feel disappointed.

Oh, that is so sad.

What?

Well, I think a lot of women are going to relate to this.

Like, I feel like my body let me down.

Just because you had to go through breast cancer or.

Yeah.

Like, it just didn't, you know, it didn't.

It kind of just didn't do what I was hoping it would do.

The flip side to that is that.

I don't know.

I don't.

Maybe there isn't a flip side.

I don't know.

It's funny.

I'm real time processing right now.

Yeah, same.

You'd think that.

You'd think 10 years out that I would have this all figured out.

But it's amazing to me how women often don't ask themselves these questions.

We just plow through and carry on and just say, it is what it is.

If I could offer Beth a distinction, you know, you might say disappointed.

And that can be completely true.

It's whether or not you choose to stay there.

And I don't see you staying there.

Like, it's an acknowledgment, but it's.

You're not stuck in that.

Oh, yeah.

No.

I don't give it a lot of deep thought.

It's like, that is kind of how I feel about.

Like, when I have a, you know, a rumble with somebody.

Right.

Like, I don't fight with people a lot, but if I have a disagreement with somebody, it's like I think about it and then I move on.

So, yeah, I do feel disappointed in how that went.

And yet there's nothing I can do about it.

And I certainly don't want it to hinder me.

So.

So, yeah.

So today we're going to talk about how we saw ourselves before diagnosis versus now.

Then we're going to talk about the danger of negative self talk and we'll.

Wrap up with how we nurture self love and self acceptance today.

But before we get started, let's hear from our first Spencer.

Are you feeling scared, overwhelmed or lost post treatment?

Do you want to reclaim your life and thrive even better than before?

Breast cancer?

Faith Thru Fire's Survivorship bootcamp is designed for breast cancer survivors who are committed to living their fullest lives.

If you're ready to leap forward, seize personal growth and redefine your journey, this boot camp will provide the path you might benefit from.

Our boot camp.

The excitement of completing treatment has worn off, leaving you feeling unsure about your future.

You feel confused by your new post cancer identity and struggle to accept your new normal.

You want to enjoy life again, but feel stuck in a cycle of negative emotions.

You feel disconnected from yourself, others or God.

Our bootcamp offers a structured roadmap that delves deep into four key areas crucial for post cancer recovery and thriving.

Understanding trauma, cultivating a fighting spirit, managing anxiety and intrusive thoughts, and redefining and reshaping your identity so you can rediscover your joy and purpose in life.

You can participate by visiting faiththroughfire.org survivorship bootcamp.

And we're back.

So we kind of started to touch on this, but did you guys ever struggle with body image before cancer or did it only become an issue after treatment?

So I can't wait to hear Jess's response because you're talking to two collegiate and professional athletes, which is an interesting relationship with your body in and of itself to execute kind of the task at hand.

So I'm really curious how Jess is going to answer this.

Oh, so much pressure.

What was the question again?

Did you ever struggle with body image before cancer or did it only become an issue after treatment?

No, I definitely there were periods of time where I struggled with it more than others.

But yes, I would say body image is kind of always out there.

I think there's just like this pressure in our society, in our society to like be a certain way.

And so.

Yeah, yeah.

What about you, Jamie?

Well, I, I would say that no, because my profession warranted that, like I couldn't do my job if I wasn't at the weight I had to be at for to fight.

And so I had a very dialed in decade of my life.

I would say the struggle came to me after that when I gave up the strict diet and the three hour workouts and I was like, wow, I don't look like I did.

So the joke now when we see pictures of me, that.

That girl, she gone.

She got what you cut out.

She gone.

Oh, she gone.

Yeah, she gone.

When I see pictures of me at weigh ins and stuff.

And so I would say after that section of my life and then just all the changes that came with having babies and then cancer and then perimenopause, I mean, it's like our bodies keep us guessing, you know?

Oh, I know.

I.

You know, this happened recently.

I actually just had a conversation with a friend about it because it really kind of put me in tune with my disappointment.

Right.

About my body because.

And my husband did not mean it the way it sounds, you know, But I remember we were sitting on the couch recently and you know how your phone pops up?

Old photos, memories.

Yeah.

And it popped up a image on his phone and it was me holding our oldest, Ben.

Now think about this.

Ben's 16 years old.

So this was.

He was not even one yet.

So this was 16 years ago.

I'm sitting on our back patio, I've got him in my lap, and my husband says, who's this hot lady?

And it just kind of like felt like a little bit of a. Ugh, gosh.

I don't know who that is because it's not how I feel now.

You know what I mean?

Like, and he didn't mean anything by it, but it really made me realize, like, how sad I am that I can't be the best from 16 years ago, you know, it just it.

And so that's how it'll show up.

It's not something I dwell on.

It's not something I think about.

I'm much more interested in having a joyful, fun life and to be healthy.

And it's less wrapped up in, like you said, jamie, wait.

Or, you know, this or that.

But it will surface at interesting moments.

And I'm reminded that I do care.

Yeah, it's funny you say that because pictures are where it creeps up on me as well.

I see pictures with my breast and I feel sadness.

I don't stay there, but I.

It's like the Jamie before and the Jamie after.

That's like the thing that I can almost always guarantee hits me in the moment.

I'll notice that I have them or I don't.

And I'll know exactly if it was, you know, pre or post.

Mm.

Yeah, it's.

I wonder if that will lessen over time for you, Jamie.

Because how many years out are you?

I mean, not that many.

Two and a half.

Yeah, you're only two and a half years out because I remember and it had nothing to do with my appearance at that time.

But like looking at any photos that were pre cancer made me sad for a long time because it was almost like they represented the innocence that I still felt I had.

Right.

And then post cancer pictures or that loss of that innocence.

So it wasn't related to my body, but.

But it was related again.

I think that's the mental part, right.

Is like this is when I would, the way I would think about it is this is when I was happy and this is after my world fell apart.

And you know, and it takes a long time before.

That's not the narrative.

And so now when I look at pictures from before, I don't feel that way, but I certainly did for a very long time.

Did you have any of that, Jess?

Yes, definitely.

For me.

I also lost my hair to chemo and so it's just, it still isn't as long as it was.

So I was diagnosed in 2021.

It started growing back probably the spring of 2022.

So, you know, I'm.

I'm just four years of it, almost up to four years of it growing back.

So I mean I think the process of seeing pictures of yourself from before, when it was long and then in my mind I was super fit and I didn't struggle.

I mean I did and didn't depending on like having babies and things like that.

But just with like my overall view of myself and where I was physically.

But I felt like I was very strong.

If I put my mind to it, I could transform my body however I really wanted to if I was committed.

Obviously that is not the case anymore, but I do feel like now when I see pictures of that version of myself, there is a part of me that's.

I kind of just long for that person.

But then I also quickly think about how far I've come and what I've been through and where I am now.

And overall I'm just, I. I hope that I'm a much healthier, all around balanced person.

And so it is, it is kind of hard, but just making that.

I just try to make that switch quickly and not stay in the past.

But definitely there's times where it's super hard and you, you want to reminisce and.

But honestly that doesn't really do anything for me except for make me sad.

So it's not really a great place to be.

So I just try to quickly, like, switch out of it and think about where I am now and where I've become and where I'm going in the future.

I. I definitely feel like a better version of myself.

So when I give it thought of, would you trade, you know, what you've been through to kind of go back to that version of yourself?

Not really.

And that's kind of the process I have to walk myself through is that I find that fascinating that you can go through something really hard and traumatic.

And yes, there's parts of you that miss that old version of yourself, but there are parts of that old version of me that I do not want back.

And I feel better off for having kind of shed that through the cancer process.

So, yeah, my struggle goes kind of back and forth between mental and physical.

So did either one of you feel like your body betrayed you or was that not a thing for you?

I've heard people phrase it in that way before, and honestly, I never saw it that way, like on my own.

I just.

I think that it's like one of those things that when I think about how this happened to me, I know that some things are just out of your control.

And I think, like, I always want to speak positively to my body.

So even if I have a negative thought, like, our minds are so powerful and they come through to our body.

So it's like I just.

I really.

It's so hard for me to even.

Like, I sometimes am just so particular about every thought, just trying to be positive because I don't want my body to believe what my mind is telling it.

I want it to always be positive.

So I don't know.

Do you feel like that, Jamie?

I'm reflecting on the word betrayal because I've definitely used it before and I think the lens in which I've used it is that there's broken trust in myself.

Meaning, you know, my body did the best it could with what it had.

And our bodies are amazing in that way and they're communicating a need that we have, you know, through cancer.

But I think it was that after that I had to figure out how to trust myself again because I was doing all the things right.

Right.

Like professional athlete, like breastfed all my babies, like, ate healthy, didn't do drugs, barely drank, like all the things and it still happened.

And so.

And that does go to that.

You know, I know we're going to get into self talk, but.

But that our.

That our thoughts have power and that our brains look to confirm what we Tell ourselves.

So I agree with Jess that we have to be careful in, in how we let our, our thoughts ruminate and what we tell ourselves.

For sure.

Yeah, I, I think there is such delicate balance between acknowledgement of how we really feel because I think it's also detrimental when you ignore or push down how you actually feel, which was always my problem.

My problem is, is that I never felt like I could be vulnerable or say the hard thing out loud.

And so there's that, that's also detrimental.

But then to your point, when you get into that cycle of negative self talk, I a hundred percent agree.

Your body's listening and it's responding and what you feed it, it's going to kind of project, project.

So yeah, I want to dive into negative self talk more.

But before we do that, you guys want to do Boobs in the News?

Let's do it.

Boobs in the News is a fun segment where we read funny tweets by real people or ridiculous news stories.

Bibs in the news.

Bibs in the news.

Bibs in the news.

Okey dokey.

So the name of this is man snaps 65 cucumbers and 30 seconds to break World record.

What do you guys, what do you guys think about these serial Guinness World Record people?

Do you have judgment there or do you think it's like amazing?

I have judgment.

Like, where do you find this stuff?

I want to know.

Like, are you retired, sir?

Do you not have young children at home?

What is happening to where you can.

Because he probably trained for that.

Yeah, like cucumbers don't bother me.

It's the people that eat hot dogs for a record that, oh yeah, he's not eating them.

He's just, he's just breaking them.

He trained his whole life for it.

He's just crazy breaking.

So he actually, he flew to Spain to be on a television show to break this record.

So this man is doing international travel in order to do this.

Now you like when money for breaking against record?

I don't know.

Where's the motivation?

You know, that's a really good question.

Okay, so would you, I, I, I know what this man's motivation is.

I, and I would not have guessed it and I don't think you're going to be able to guess it either.

So I'm just going to tell you.

But his entire record breaking career, and he does have a career, I can tell you, other records he's broken is aimed at promoting STEM education.

Now would you have guessed that?

Yeah.

Nope.

It's so he says Quote, it's about showing students and everyone watching that stem can be exciting, hands on, and even a little crazy.

Whether it's building robots, designing sensors, or.

Yes, snapping cucumbers at world record speed.

It all ties back to creativity and problem solving.

So the man has a goal.

Okay, so do you know how many.

Okay.

No, I told you in the title.

He snapped 65 and 30 seconds.

Do you want to guess what the previous record was?

64.

No, it was lower than that.

It was 50.

50.

Okay, when we, like, can we define snap?

Like, just break in half?

Yes.

There's a picture of him.

One hand or two hands?

Does it matter?

You know, I didn't watch the video and the photo.

It's hard to tell, but it's literally these enormous cucumbers on a table where he just goes and snaps them in half down the rows.

It's.

It's kind of crazy.

So, I mean, I feel like I could get.

So he has to do more than one a minute or I think it's.

One handed, which, if you think about that, that might be kind of hard.

Well, that is.

There's a lot more technique to that than two hands, right?

Yeah, Well, I can't be certain because I didn't watch the video.

Do you guys want to guess what other records he's broken?

Are they all, like, vegetable related?

No.

Hopefully he's not the longest fingernail person.

Oh, that guy is so gross.

Or the lady.

I actually did a boobs on a lady once who was making art out of used band aids.

That's pretty gross too.

That is disgusting, actually.

Yeah, I don't.

I don't get that.

That would have been an easy boob with this guy.

I feel like he has a noble cause with the whole stem thing, so I'm going to give him a pass.

But he has also gotten records in most T shirts put on in 30 seconds.

He was able to put 20 T shirts on in 30 seconds, which is pretty impressive.

Fastest time to stack 10 toilet paper rolls with one hand.

Any guesses as to how long that took him?

Wait, 10 with one hand?

Yes.

7 seconds.

5.38.

Wow.

I feel like this would be an excellent exercise for us at our next Survivor retreat where we try to time ourselves to do this because.

Oh, that would be fun.

None of us.

None of us are getting to 5.5.38.

All right.

And the last one that I looked up on him, he had the fastest time to drink 1 liter of lime juice through a strawberry.

Wow, that makes me have heartburn.

I know.

That's exactly how I felt when I read that.

I was like, I need to drink.

That much lime juice.

I, I don't know.

But I, I think he's trying to set records that can't easily, you know, be broken, because who wants to come back and try to, you know, reclaim the crown?

Yeah, not me.

So, I don't know.

I, I would have said he was a boob, except for I kind of like that he's doing it for stem, you know, education.

I don't know that I've made the connection between STEM and what he's doing.

But I, I, I did not.

But it's also safe to say that I'm not a STEM expert.

Right.

Those were not the subjects that I excelled in.

So there's your bibs.

Bibs in the news Bibs and the news bibs.

All right, so we're back.

Let's talk about negative self talk.

I mean, Jess, you talked about it.

I think this is, like, a critical component of your healing in your mind.

Am I right?

Yeah.

I mean, I think it's all in our minds.

For sure.

Yes.

Have you read that whole.

We've talked about it on the podcast before.

The Whole Body Keeps the Score.

I have read parts of it.

I haven't read it all the way through.

That is actually on my to do list.

But I read a book called the Power of Positive Thinking, and I actually read that book as I was starting chemo and, like, throughout my chemo journey, and I really think that it kind of transformed my mind into what I was trying to do and just how I was trying to heal and get rid of the cancer cells.

And I was working full time.

It was, it was a very, like, inspirational book about how our minds and our bodies, you know, work together.

And so I think that it's.

I think it's really important.

There's also another book by.

I think his name's Bernie Sanders.

Bernie Sanders?

Like the guy that the socialist.

No, no, no, no, no.

He was a doctor.

He was a doctor.

Dr. Bernie Sanders.

Maybe I have the wrong name, but it was called Love, Medicine and Miracles or something.

And it was all about how patients, like exceptional patients, how they were able to heal.

It was all through the power of their mind and what you believe your body tries to complete.

And so being positive.

Why would you not give your body everything that it needs to heal and to get through hard things, whatever, Whatever the circumstances are.

But that was another really inspirational book, just about the power of the mind and being positive.

And he goes through Examples of patients that think that they're sick and they're actually not.

But how you can make yourself sick.

I've read those studies.

I've read those studies.

That's amazing, because people will die that we're not even ill.

Right.

And just because they thought they were right.

And the same thing is true on the other side.

People that are very sick have been able to heal themselves just through.

I mean, I don't know if it's just through the power of the mind, but that definitely is.

Has helped.

So I think it's really important and something that I try to be really aware of.

But, you know, it's hard.

We live in a negative world, and people complain all the time, and it's.

It's hard.

So it's like you constantly have to be on.

On guard, like, weeding out, like, the negative thoughts and replacing them with.

Why do you guys.

Why do you guys think that people are so prone to negativity?

Is there comfort in it?

Like, is it a bonding thing?

You know, like, when you were younger and you wanted to gossip, it, like, brought you closer to somebody.

What are they gaining from that negative loop?

Or is it just trauma unaddress?

And it's kind of created this new neural pathway that they want to get out of, but they don't know how.

Like, what are your thoughts on that, Jamie?

Well, Beth, that is a very complex question.

Can I go back?

Really?

You have five minutes to figure it out.

Well, I want to go back real quick because Jess has brought up a really important point, and I don't want it to get lost in the.

You know, because part of we have a negative culture, but we also have, like, toxic positivity.

And that's not what Jess is talking about.

And Jess, like, jump in if I'm misrepresenting, But the positivity, to me is the joy, the gratitude, the being present where your feet are, the practices and intention, not just, like, be happy and positive.

And so I think that's an important distinction, that there's some intention, intentionality that has to come with kind of flexing that muscle of, like, finding the good, because it really is all around us.

But we are hardwired.

You know, Beth, to get to your question.

I think part of it is, yes, the trauma loops that we're all in.

We're all very broken.

I mean, we are in a fallen world for sure.

And there's a lot of input that we're not.

Well, one, we're not supposed to receive and digest all of the information we get in a day, right?

So like in our household, we don't, we haven't watched the news since April of 2020.

There was just too much negative and we were finding it impacted everything in our lives.

And so I think that for some people it's a protective factor that like, if I don't assume anything good and I don't see the good, it can't be taken from me.

Does that make sense as, as like one avenue of this?

Yeah.

I don't know.

I don't know what they gain from it because to me it feels yucky.

You know, I mean I, you know, everybody goes through hard times and I, I do really encourage myself to be real with how I'm feeling in the moment because the only way that I can process it is if I acknowledge it.

But then it's like, okay, now I've acknowledged it, I know I don't want to stay here.

And now I'm going to make every effort to make sure that I don't.

Whereas some people, yeah, there seems to be, they, they're getting something from staying in that negative loop and constantly reinforcing this negative idea.

I think there's a component of survivalism and like that protective factor that we pay attention to negative events and threats more than the positive ones as a survival mechanism, if that makes sense, like our ancestors.

And then I do think there's something to.

There's people that are more hardwired in that way and there's those of us that aren't, were less.

We're more able to see the good.

But I do think it's something we can all have an impact on, you know, with our neuroplasticity and how we think about things.

I have a follow up question.

It's taking a little bit of a different path, Jamie, but I'm picking on you because I know your spirituality is important to you.

Do you ever feel like that inner critic or that negative self talk isn't just like your own voice, but like a spiritual attack meant to steal your peace and joy?

Oh, a hundred percent.

Yeah, I do too.

Yeah, I'll actually say out loud if I'm stuck in a loop, I'll say, not today, Satan.

Because if it's not of love, I don't think it's from God.

And it's not how God wants me to think.

And so I will deny it, reject it.

Absolutely.

That's something that I often tell people who come to me with negative thoughts or fears is, hey, that, that's not from God.

That's from somebody else, and we don't give him any space.

Right.

And so it's like exactly what you said.

I'm not going to give this any space.

This is what, you know, he's trying to do.

And I mean, it's, it's personal.

Right.

And it's, but it's something that a lot of people, I don't know if they necessarily feel that way.

That's come from years of pursuing my faith, where I think that that stems from somewhere else, but it can be a factor for sure.

Well, and if, if we're, since we're on that, I just want to say one more thing.

It wasn't till several years into my spiritual journey that I had a pastor tell me that it's okay to pray for God to take those thoughts away or to guard your heart against Him.

And it was such a simple but profound act that I could just say, God, take this from me.

I don't want it.

Just as another spiritual lens, I also.

Feel strongly that spiritual attacks come on the verge of breakthrough.

So I've noticed, too, that they feel like they happen to me when I'm really trying to do my part to bring attention to God and his work.

And so I think that just knowing that, it really helps me kind of extinguish those flames proactively, you know?

But you're right.

You can just ask God to take it from you.

Yep.

All right, so let's talk about how we nurture self love and self acceptance.

Because people listening are like, yeah, that all sounds great, but what do we do to fix it?

Right.

Yeah.

And I think therapists approach self love as both an emotional practice and a behavioral pattern, which, when I hear you, Jess, it's like, I know how regimented and dedicated you are, and I just, I, I see that behavioral pattern.

Right.

Like, this is going to be my process to address this.

For me, it's more of an emotional practice.

I don't know if you lean one way or the other, Jamie.

Ooh, I think I'm in the middle.

I, I, I start with movement because that is how I process and kind of get things out of my body.

But it's very cognitive, emotional, and physical for me.

Okay.

Yeah.

Intentional action, Jess, Is that where you go to first?

Yeah, I think so.

So how do you guys nurture self love?

Like, Jamie, you said movement.

Just, I see you surrounding yourself with people who reflect that same positive mindset.

Like, I feel like that's important to you.

Is that fair?

Yes, definitely.

For me, like, it's interesting, but I. I always feel the most self love and accepted when I'm outdoors, which seems like a strange thing, but I just feel like when I'm in nature, it just gets you back to the core of who you are and you.

I don't know, I just feel more self love.

Any.

Anybody else?

You know, I'm thinking about our cucumber guy, about, you know, I always want to kind of make fun of these folks, but I'm always secretly impressed with adults who make time for play.

And that's what that guy's doing.

That guy gets a kick out of, you know, getting these records.

And really there's no purpose beside.

I mean, he can say it's to promote stem, you know, stem, but it's like, really, at the end of the day, this guy just gets a kick out of it.

And I think that there's something really cool about that.

I am constantly trying to incorporate more play into my life because I think that that is like self love and acceptance and just not fearing what other people think about my choices.

You guys have any thoughts on that?

I love the idea of incorporating.

Incorporating play and just being joyful and being silly.

And do you guys do that with your kids?

Like, I. I really have to be intentional about it because I think I just am too serious all the time.

And I'm always worried about, you know, did you do that?

Did you get your homework done?

Did you, you know, unload the dishwasher?

You know, did you clean your room?

It feels like I. I bark at them a lot.

And it's.

I have to remind myself to just be a fun mom sometimes.

And that does not come naturally to me.

Does that come naturally to you?

I feel like it would come more naturally to you, Jamie.

I'm like the CEO of Authentic Play in my house, for sure.

I think my husband would like me to take a few things a little more seriously.

But no, that is when I am hyper stressed.

I can't regulate.

I either.

And you know this, Beth.

I either get with my animals or I go play with my kids and just kind of let it go until I can regulate myself to do things that require a more serious version of me.

You know, the question was, how do we nurture self love and self acceptance?

And I think I'll speak for myself.

I've accepted who I am today, like who I am in this body and all the wisdom and pain and everything that comes with it.

And I think I'm working on the self love.

I don't know how that resonates with either of you.

So you're accepting, but you're not fully.

Like, that radical self love piece is still kind of a missing puzzle piece.

I think I'm still on that, that Jo journey.

Like, I heard that happens when you hit your 50s.

Oh, okay.

So I have, I have seven years.

Okay.

Yeah, I, I heard that's the pinnacle of your 50s.

I remember when Oprah was talking about that.

So, you know, we only have seven more years.

And like, what does love mean?

Does it mean that, like, I can stand in front of a mirror naked and say, yes, like you're rocking it, or does it mean that I embrace all the parts of me, you know, Like, I. I don't know.

I'd be curious how you guys define self love and what that looks like in your life.

I think I'd be thrilled if I just didn't equate, you know, my body with my self love.

Like, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Like, I wish I could get past that.

Yeah, I don't, I don't.

I don't know why self love is so heavily tied to our appearance.

It just seems like such a.

A stupid thing that we should be able to get over.

Yeah.

Like, if you said, do you love your personality?

Like, hundred percent.

Yeah.

Like, do I.

Do I love the life I've created?

Yes.

Like, but you're right.

I tie it to my physical being and I don't like that.

Here's a question.

I don't see men doing this to themselves.

I have seen some.

I have seen some men who really should care more care so little that I'm like, absolutely amazed and just in awe of how little self conscious.

Like, they just don't.

Yeah, they don't care and they don't feel that way and they don't think about it.

And it's like, how do I get to feel like that?

Yeah, I mean, do you guys agree?

I just, I just don't know that many insecure men.

Well, I mean, to me, that goes back to the messaging we receive from a very young age.

And I think that, like, my priority now is less about me and making sure I pour in to my daughter that she is whole and perfect and, you know, like, I feel like the ship's kind of sailed for me.

There is some of that.

Yeah, I feel the same way.

I relate a lot to what you were saying, Jamie, about, like, accepting was my one word at the beginning of this episode.

And I think that it's taken a long time to get there, but I think when, and I think the self love follows the acceptance.

And so I think it's still like for me, I think it still is a part of my everyday.

What, what do I choose to do and how do I feel about it?

How does that choice make me feel?

And I mean I also think like the acceptance for me, I, like this is all in my mind.

It's physical, like my physical body.

When we're talking about self love.

And I think that it's, I mean I've spent the last, I mean it's been four years of going through breast cancer so like the last three years constantly trying to improve my body composition, build my strength, lower my body fat and it, it just doesn't work the same way that it used to.

And so I, I, I had a doctor, actually my radiation oncologist told me in April that what I was trying to accomplish was virtually impossible because I have no hormones.

And so I think like hearing him say that and him kind of explain that to me and then looking back at the last year, all of the things I've done to be healthy, it, I mean I'm, I'm virtually in the exact same place that I am.

So, you know, do you want to live your life tracking every crumb that you put in your mouth?

I choose, I choose to enjoy the ice cream, when we go out for ice cream, you know, so it's, I think it's like a balance of not be beating yourself up so much and being so strict to get to the place that you want to go and just becoming more okay with, well, this is where I am now and just focusing on the present and I can't control all of those other things.

And so I'm just going to do the best with what I have, you know?

Do you, do you.

Okay, I'm, I'm, I love everything about that and I think it's just, it's kind of coming home to reality, right?

Like we all want to, we all want to be that older ver or that younger version of ourselves.

But I literally was just sitting on the couch scrolling mindlessly, which I really always tell people not to do, but I got sucked in and, and there's this one plastic surgeon who does the before and afters of celebrities, like what they did to themselves.

You guys ever look at that and just feel sad?

Just feel sad that they've done that to themselves because they looked natural and authentic and real before and then after they look weird and not almost human and I just like, I don't know if I took, like, a sharp left turn.

But I just.

I keep thinking to myself, like, what are you really after?

Like, you can't.

Like, you see it in other people.

We don't see it in ourselves.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, I love authenticity and naturalness and, you know, just.

I don't.

We're so accepting of other people, and when people get it wrong and they try to alter themselves in an unnatural way, we just think it's so weird and so unnatural and so yucky, and yet we don't give ourselves that same.

Yeah, I don't know.

Same grace.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

It's just.

And I always see it in everybody else.

It's like I never see it in myself.

So I appreciate you, ladies.

I.

We need to close out.

But before we do that, let's hear from our second sponsor.

Thriven is a proud sponsor of Faith Through Fire.

Thriven believes money is a tool, not a goal.

The Gateway Financial Group with Thriven is local to the St. Louis area and can work with you to create a financial strategy that reflects your priorities and helps you protect the things that matter to you, like family and giving back.

Please call 314-783-4214 to schedule a free consultation with one of Thriven's Gateway Financial advisors.

All right, any final words?

I feel like we've said it all.

I just think it was beautiful how we organically kind of processed what does self love even mean to us?

And I think it could be a powerful exercise for any of the listeners and that when we let go of the outcome and give ourselves permission to play in kind of the unknown, we can rediscover ourselves in new and different ways.

Ooh, that sounded very profess.

That sure did.

That was amazing.

Jamie's.

Jamie's calling on her research.

That felt like a research.

There's.

There's data behind that answer straight from the heart.

All right, guys, until next time.

See ya.

Bye.

Thank you for being a listener of the Besties with Breasties podcast.

If this podcast had a positive impact on your journey, leave us a review or consider becoming a supporter.

You can donate with the link in the show notes or at faith through fire.org.

Sam.