S5E34: Motherhood, Breast Cancer, and Recurrence: Michelle’s Inspiring Journey

Welcome to the Besties with Breasties podcast.

Sarah hall here I am a certified health and wellness coach, athletic trainer, mom, and breast cancer survivor.

I help women overcome their own mind drama to make mind shifts that open up the possibility for their most empowered and energetic life.

And I am Beth Wilmes, author, speaker, and founder of a human investment organization otherwise known as a nonprofit called Faith Through Fire.

Our mission is to reduce the fear and anxiety that breast cancer patients feel and replace it with hope and a path toward thriving.

Podcast is about our experiences with breast.

Cancer and life after as young survivors and moms.

All right, and we're here, episode number two for today.

Number two.

Number two.

So today we're going to be talking to Faith Through Fire member named Michelle.

Really glad that I get to share her story because I think it'll resonate with a lot of people listening.

And I met Michelle.

She came through the Faith Through Fire program and got involved with Faith Through Fire, and then she suffered a recurrence.

So today we're going to talk to Michelle about how her stage zero diagnosis turned into a stage three recurrence.

We're also going to talk about the emotional toll of treatment and recurrence on a young mom.

Yeah.

And what it's like for Michelle navigating motherhood, marriage, and mental health in the middle of cancer chaos.

But before we dive in with Michelle, let's hear from our first sponsor.

Are you feeling scared, overwhelmed, or lost post treatment?

Do you want to reclaim your life and thrive even better than before?

Breast cancer?

Faith Thru Fire's Survivorship boot camp is designed for breast cancer survivors who are committed to living their fullest lives.

If you're ready to leap forward, seize personal growth, and redefine your journey, this boot camp will provide the path you might benefit from.

Our boot camp if the excitement of completing treatment has worn off, leaving you feeling unsure about your future.

You feel confused by your new post cancer identity and struggle to accept your quote, new normal.

You want to enjoy life again but feel stuck in a cycle of negative emotions.

Or you feel disconnected from yourself, others, or God.

Our boot camp offers a structured roadmap that delves deep into four key areas crucial for post cancer recovery and thriving.

Understanding trauma, cultivating a fighting spirit, managing anxiety and intrusive thoughts, and redefining and reshaping your identity so you can rediscover your joy and purpose in life.

You can participate in person in St. Louis or online.

To join our wait list, visit faiththroughfire.org survivorship bootcamp.

Well, welcome, Michelle.

Thank you so much for being on with us today.

Thank you for having me.

Of course.

So let's start back at the beginning.

It was June, right, of 2023 that led to your first diagnosis of breast cancer?

Yes, it was the end of May, early June.

I had been having some nipple discharge that I wasn't sure what it was.

I didn't know that that was a symptom of breast cancer.

And I had just finished nursing my youngest, who was about 14, 15 months at that point.

So I just thought I had a clogged milk duct.

And nothing, you know, was wrong, of course, because I was 32 years old and no woman thinks that about themselves.

Upon going to see my ob, I could just tell with the vibe in the room that this wasn't normal.

And she, you know, did the culture, I guess it's called, and sent that off and then very rapidly got me into have a mammogram and more imaging that was in.

I think that this all happened between like Memorial Day weekend.

So then early June, I had my appointment to have my mammogram and the imaging, and I didn't even get to leave that appointment with them saying, can we go ahead and do a biopsy?

I had three small children and they knew that my time away in the summer from them was hard.

And I was home, my mother in law was home with my kids.

So they were like, we have childcare for you, can you stay?

So I said, sure.

And then before I even left that day, they had said, you know, this looks like dcis.

We're talking mastectomy with the size of it.

So it was a whirlwind day.

So they told you all that while you were there for your mammogram?

Yes.

So my nurse navigator, none of it was confirmed, but she's like, I see this every day.

I want to prepare you.

I'm not going to let you leave.

And I had mixed feelings about that.

I was a little bit like, what if she's wrong?

And of course my husband, being the person he is, is like, she's wrong.

Like, you don't have cancer.

This is not happening.

And then, you know, a day or two later they called me with the results and everything she had said was, you know, correct.

I had a 10 centimeter mass on my left breast.

Lumpectomy was not an option for me.

But they were like, good news is it's dcis, so it's the best kind of breast cancer you can have.

I was like, great, that's lovely to hear.

And they basically said, you know, we're looking at single mastectomy at the.

The least invasive thing for you.

And how.

How.

Where was your mind set at that point?

Like, did you feel grateful?

Because I feel like a lot of our DCRs are just, like, I know I should be, like, grateful because it's so early, but.

And then they really struggle with the emotions and whether or not they're valid, which we're always telling them.

Of course they are.

You know, cancer is cancer, and you're still amputating body parts.

And of course, you know, this is a traumatizing event.

Like, where was your head with it all?

I was devastated.

I mean, I never in a million years, when I went into that appointment, thought I was gonna hear the words mastectomy like, that.

Just.

I still can put myself back in that chair of hearing her say that to me.

And again, it was.

A lot of.

It was.

I was just finishing nursing my baby, and, you know, then I went into the, you know, I'll never nurse another baby again.

And I. I just felt like my youth and my motherhood and all of that was kind of ending in literally a matter of, you know, a day.

I heard those words.

So it was very, very, very devastating.

I feel like a lot of women, too, who are breastfeeding and then are told that they are, you know, that it's going to be taken away from them in the future, you know, whether they want it, you know, maybe they hadn't considered it, but once it's told to them that.

That.

That that window is going to be closed with that surgery.

I feel like a lot of people don't understand how upsetting that is for women.

I mean, was that something that was really important to you?

Absolutely.

I nursed all three of my babies over 12 months.

My husband and I felt like we were finished with our family, but we were never gonna do anything permanent.

So, like, of course, that option was always there.

And, yeah, the.

The thought that if I do have another baby, like, that isn't going to be an option for me.

Definitely felt horrible and unfair to a young mom, for sure.

Now, you and I met because you had.

So you had your surgery, and they told you what, you're done?

Like, you're cured.

You're done.

You can move on with your life.

Right.

That was kind of the verbiage that you heard from them.

Yes, after my surgery, said, we can officially say you've been cured.

They said.

I asked about reoccurrence.

They said, there's a less than 1% chance that this will come back.

I felt super confident.

I loved my surgeons and my doctors.

And I went back after my six month post mastectomy.

Everything looked good.

It was just physical exam.

I never had a PET scan or any other kind of imaging done after my mastectomy.

And I did opt for a double mastectomy.

I don't know if I said that to begin with.

Yeah, yeah, you did.

So you probably, you probably felt like, okay, I did all the things right.

Like, I, I did the most drastic thing to make sure that this doesn't come back is what a lot of women feel when they get a double mastectomy.

Yes, yes.

And to me, it was like, if you're going to take one, you might as well take both.

And that was kind of.

I just wanted.

I just wanted.

I was like, just get rid of it and hopefully I can move on from this and never have to cross this bridge again.

Which is kind of like where you and I, I mean, we knew each other.

But then you joined the survivorship boot camp with Faith through Fire.

And so we were together with a group of women to kind of process the diagnosis and to give ourselves tools to move forward.

And it was during that process, like, toward the end, that you told me that you felt a lump.

And I was like, you're going to be fine.

You're going to be fine.

This happens a lot.

It's, you know.

But explain how that felt.

You know, here you are trying to move on, and you're in this boot camp to kind of give yourself the tools to be able to do that, and then you, you feel the lump.

Like, what was your first thought?

Did you think it wasn't a big deal, or were you immediately panicked?

Well, I'm not very medical, so I'm a teacher.

I don't.

My sisters are both nurses, very medical.

I go to them with all of my questions.

My one sister is a nurse practitioner.

I originally was just like, this is, like, kind of weird.

And it was Thanksgiving night when I felt it.

And I immediately went over to my husband and I started feeling his neck.

And he's like, what are you doing?

And I was like, is one side of your neck, like, bigger than the other?

And he was like, what is happening?

And so then, I know it's kind of funny, like, thinking about it now, but I was just like, there's no way that this is like a lymph node.

Like, I'm not.

Because it was in your neck, is what you're saying you felt like a lump in your neck?

Yeah.

So Right where my left clavicle is.

It was, like, right above that, and it was, like, obviously larger than my right side.

And I just happened to put my hands there, like there was no reason why it wasn't hurting.

So I sent a picture to my sister, and she's like, come over.

So I went over there, and she says she knew immediately that it was cancer.

She did not tell me that.

Being my sister and hoping she was wrong, but she's like, just in my practice of feeling people's lymph nodes, she's like, I knew we were actually packing to go to Branson that weekend.

So I tried.

I went on this trip, and I'm like, okay, everything's fine.

Like, it's not going to be anything.

And then, yeah, when I got back, they ordered an ultrasound.

And being in that survivorship boot camp, the reason I started going to that or felt like I needed it is about a year after my mastectomy, I started feeling.

I was like, I need to see a therapist.

Like, I don't know what's happening to me.

It was just, like, all of this emotion and trauma around my surgery and, like, you called it an amputation.

It really, truly is.

Even though people don't call it that or think of it that way, you know, it was.

It felt like a huge part of me, my identity as a woman.

I was just feeling like I needed something.

Like, my life is just.

I don't know.

There was just, like, a lot of intense emotion, and I didn't know how to handle it.

Yeah, we call that the emotional fallout phase.

It happens to everybody.

Yes.

And it was right around.

Yeah, I was, like, right around a year, almost exactly that.

I went back to work after my summer off, and I was just like, what is going on?

My therapist, she's like, it's.

You're trying to figure out survivorship.

Like, you have survived this, and now you're trying to figure out what to do with all of that.

And that was the first time someone had given me that word.

And I was like, okay, this makes sense.

And then I saw you guys advertising the survivorship bootcamp, and I was like, that is what I need.

Like that.

It felt so perfect.

And upon going, I was like, I love.

I mean, it was just.

It was wonderful.

It was everything.

I needed the tools.

I just.

I felt like I was really coming out of it.

And then it was bizarre because there was one person in our group who was very concerned about reoccurrence, almost brought it up almost every time we were meeting and that was like the furthest thing from my mind at that point in my journey.

And then that ended up being what happened to me.

So it was kind of ironic.

And I don't know, Beth, if you remember that last session we had, I wasn't gonna come.

Cause I was like, I can't.

I know I have this lump.

I know it's probably something, but my mom and my husband both encouraged me to go, and I did.

And I just didn't speak.

I was there, but I just was like, I can't share because, you know, the emotions were that raw.

Mm.

Yeah.

I remember when that was going on.

And you had concern about this other participant because she was still so actively traumatized and was so hyper focused on recurrence.

And you were worried about, you know, if I share this, is it gonna set her off?

And I was like, you don't need to worry about her.

Like, this is about you and your experience and what you need.

So if you need to talk, you can talk.

And if you want to keep quiet, you can keep quiet.

But it was definitely heavy.

I mean, I could feel it, you know, for you.

And I thought it was pretty remarkable that you came to group, you know, when you were coping with that, because it's just a really heavy, difficult situation to be in.

And I certainly know you didn't expect to be there, so.

But yeah, when you.

When you.

You know.

So.

So explain what happened.

You got confirmation how?

Okay.

Yeah, I wish I would have written some of this down because, you know.

I'll try to get the best I can.

So, yeah, I felt the lump.

I. I didn't even have an oncologist.

I just had my surgical oncologist from my first surgery.

So I had called her, and, you know, it was a holiday.

It was Thanksgiving, so it was the holiday.

And everybody.

I was just like, oh, this is going to be, you know, fun to try to work around.

They got me in, and I had an ultrasound first.

And of course, you know, they don't really tell you anything, the ultrasound technicians.

My mom came with me, and God love her, she came home and she tells me this later, that she had Googled what, You know, reoccurrence, lymph node, breast cancer, lymph nodes, looks like.

So she decided that she knew that.

That it was cancer before they had told me.

Oh, Dr. Google.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, she wasn't wrong.

But I remember them using the word like necrosis in my.

In my results, on my chart.

Of course, I was reading those before.

I should have been and so I felt like I knew that it was, you know, after the ultrasound, then we did.

They did a biopsy, and then I. I had results from that, actually, the.

The.

I'm on.

I was on my way to a funeral.

Like, talk about timing.

It was horrible.

And they confirmed that it was breast cancer reoccurrence and just localized in my neck lymph nodes.

So then from there, I had my port placed on January 2nd, and I started chemotherapy on.

I think January 11th was my first treatment.

Was it hard to come to terms with having to do chemo when you didn't have to do it the first time, honestly?

Well, of course it was hard.

Nobody wants to go through chemotherapy.

I was really mad because I felt so confident and not having, you know, less than 1% chance of reoccurrence.

And how did this happen?

And what is our protocol for dcis?

And why.

Why did this happen to me when I felt like I already, you know, maybe if I would have just had chemotherapy the first time or done some radiation the first time, you know, and they did tell me there's no way we can get every breast cell when we do a mastectomy.

And I was very much confused about why it went to my supraclavicular lymph node instead of my auxiliary lymph nodes and my armpits, because that was always what I thought would happen if I had a reoccurrence.

And I still don't really have clarity on.

They don't really know.

They're just like, you're a really unique case.

What every patient wants to hear.

Right?

Like, you're special.

I mean.

Yeah.

Like, Beth, the amount of times that I've been told, like, your case is so unique, and, you know, everybody wants to hear my story, and, like, this is so rare, and maybe we need to be questioning, you know, and it's like, okay, that's really great, but this is my life, and this.

Doesn't that feel crummy?

I used to feel that way when they.

When the nurses would go, you're so young.

Oh, my God, you're so young.

You have such young kids.

I can't believe this happened to you.

And I'm like.

This is making me feel worse.

Like.

Or when they say, you're so healthy, like, oh.

Or, you don't look like a cancer patient.

Oh, my gosh.

Like, the things people say to you, right?

Where you're like, knife to the heart.

Yeah, right.

I. I dealt with that a lot.

With.

I. I had a miscarriage between My first and second baby.

And that kind of kick started this, like, healthy lifestyle of low tox.

And, like, I've been very health conscious about, like, the products that I put on my skin and the food that we eat.

And so everyone around me is just like, if you have cancer, like, we probably all do.

And I was like, okay, this isn't helpful.

Like, I.

Yes, it's.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying.

Yeah, there's a lot of people in our community that feel that way.

It's like, if I did all these things and it can.

And then what does that do, you know?

Like, it really messes with your head, you know?

So you get this news, you go through chemotherapy.

Where you are in your story right now is you just started radiation, correct?

Yes, I have.

I think I started on June 23rd.

I have nine treatments left, so I'm like, in the final countdown.

I don't.

Everyone's like, oh, you're almost done.

And I just, like, still don't feel that way.

You've been here before, so, you know, you're not done.

It's like the real healing doesn't even start to take place until you're done with treatment.

Right.

I just have a lot of.

A lot of internal work to do, and I know that.

Yeah, Yeah.

I want to kind of talk a little bit about the mental health aspect, motherhood moving forward.

But before we do that, you want to do Boobs in the News?

Yeah, let's do it.

Boobs in the news is a fun segment where we read funny tweets by real people or ridiculous news stories.

Boobs in the news.

Bibs in the news.

Bibs in the news.

All right, lay it on me, Jess.

What you got?

All right.

An Italian man.

Okay.

Went on a 280 mile walk.

Now, let me say that again.

280 miles walk.

After arguing with his wife.

Oh, man.

He really needed.

Ken's nodding like, I don't see anything wrong with this.

Apparently, he argued with his.

His wife, left home to clear his mind, and.

And he ended up walking for over one week.

How many miles?

Like, where did he end up?

Where did he start and where did he end up?

There's actually a map.

This was in Italy, but I don't know.

Did he have a cell phone or.

Did he ghost his wife?

No, his wife had no idea.

His.

He told officers.

So finally he was found, but his wife reported him missing.

Oh, my God.

And then had to pay a fine.

So they do make people pay fines for things like this.

Oh.

But he had told officers that he didn't realize how far he had gone.

And he survived because he.

Food from strangers along the way.

Oh my.

What did his wife do?

I want to.

I. I know.

And like 280 miles.

Like, you must have really pissed him off, lady.

He like had to sleep.

You can't walk 280 miles without stopping.

Do you know what I'm thinking of right now is the scene in Forrest Gump where he's like.

I was running and running.

Like, he just takes off across the country and they show him with like.

A full beard and well, this 48 year old man.

He was 48.

48.

Okay, so you.

They probably had kids at home.

If, if he thought she was mad before.

How about now when she's been at home wondering where he's been for the last.

I mean, first you're worried and then, or maybe first you're mad that he's walking, then you're worried for a week.

Can you imagine like not knowing where.

Your husband and I. I will say this, like, I really struggle with staying mad at somebody, like, and then having them leave my presence.

Because it's always my thought, like, what if the last thing we did was.

Have a fight, right?

Oh man.

Homeboy better have a real good reason.

She better done something real wrong.

I know that must have been a serious fight.

And she had to pay €400.

No way.

For reporting him for a violation fine.

I don't know.

It says a lockdown violation fine.

I don't know why.

Oh man.

Well, here's a question.

Do you think they're still married today?

Does it say.

It doesn't say.

We ought to google them and see if they're still married.

I don't know.

There's got to be like a record of that.

Yeah, I don't know.

I am trying to envision like what Gary would do if I like took off on a 200 mile walk.

Or was it 200 miles?

Yeah, 280.

Almost 300 miles.

80 mile walk.

Okay.

I don't have good.

I don't have good.

What's the word for.

It's not perception but like give me a, a visual of 280 miles from like Wentzville.

Like, is that, is that like.

Okay, so from Wentzville to like Highway 54, like towards Columbia, that's about.

60 miles.

Shut up.

Yeah, so 280 would probably be from like Wentzville to KC, Kansas City.

He.

So imagine.

Yeah, Wentzville, the kit.

See now, now, now it's really coming Alive for me because I was like, I need a visual.

Yeah.

Wentzville to Kansas City.

And he walked.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He gumped it in one.

Yeah.

In a week without stopping.

Getting food from.

I mean, I'm actually kind of impressed.

I mean, he must have really been mad, but I kind of think he's the boob.

Because you do?

Well, kind of.

Because, like, you're that mad that you're gonna walk for 280 miles.

Like, you can't, like, go have a conversation and, like, talk it through.

Yeah, I don't know.

I guess not.

I mean.

I mean, I suppose no matter what she's done, he's still the boob.

Yeah.

I mean, I guess there's bad things out there that she could have done, but.

But seriously, that's like a mental health walk.

If I had emotional distress, he was really distressed.

If he swapped, apparently.

Oh, my God.

Okay, dude, you're the boo.

But that's impressive.

I'm kind of impressed.

Yeah.

I mean, who has that kind of walking stamina?

Not very many people can walk that far without, like, having injuries.

He's also 48 years old.

Isn't he employed?

I hope he had good tennis shoes on.

I know.

That's what I'm saying.

Like, I. Yeah.

And what about his job?

I didn't even think about the.

Maybe that was what the fight was over.

Maybe he was unemployed, and his wife's like, get out there and get a job.

And he's like, fine, I will, and I'm gonna go case.

You know, I wonder if he got.

Any donations on the way.

Like, money, monetary donations.

I don't know.

I think it would be funny if you stopped the guy and you're like, hey, like, what's going on?

Like, where My wife pissed me off, and I'm just walking.

Yeah, I'm walking.

And he got stopped by the police.

That's how they found him.

Oh, gosh.

That's unbelievable.

Unbelievable.

There's your bibs.

Bibs and the news bibs and the news bibs.

And we're back.

So you touched on it a little bit, but, like, the mental side of all this, you know, like you said, I'm gonna have a lot of work to do.

How do you foresee yourself moving forward after this?

How do you.

What are your biggest worries mentally, you know, after you get done with radiation?

Right now I am seeing a therapist during treatment.

And I know I shouldn't compare myself to pre cancer or really.

It wasn't pre cancer.

It was where I was before I had my Reoccurrence.

I would love to get back to that place.

And right now I just still feel stuck.

Like I have all these things that I want to do and it feels really overwhelming to do any of them.

And I was talking to my husband about it and he's like, you just need to pick one thing.

And right now my one thing is that I'm walking every day.

Like I'm choosing to exercise my body and my faith has fallen.

I feel like my just my mental toughness.

Like I just, I'm feeling very stuck in most aspects of my life.

I'm still working through this.

And you know, you mentioned, you know, you're a mom.

Yeah.

I have three young kids, so it's putting on that happy face and getting up every day and just enjoying my summer with them and doing, doing the best I can every single day.

But I know, like, the work is still out there and it's just.

But I can't rush it.

I have to go through it as it comes.

And right now the thing I'm choosing to focus on is exercising my body every day and feeling good for myself in that way.

Yeah, I think that's an amazing, you know, goal.

And not only is it good for your body, but it's good for your mind too.

I'm sure when you're out walking, you're, you know, processing.

I mean, at least that's what I do when I walk.

It's like, oh, I'm an audiobook girl.

Yeah.

What are you reading right now?

Oh, gosh, this is embarrassing.

Is it a sex book?

No, no, no.

I can't handle those.

I can't handle that.

I'm listening to, it's called Sociopath and it's about a, a girl who is a self proclaimed sociopath and it's her story.

It's like a true.

I love those.

Have you ever watched those interviews on TV with sociopaths?

They're fascinating.

No, I don't really watch much tv.

Pretty much.

Yeah.

I like, because you're mommy and you're going through cancer treatment and you're doing, and you're working.

The only thing I watch is Dateline on Friday nights.

Oh, there you go.

Yeah, there you go.

I, I applaud you for having the one goal, the one focus, and then just giving yourself the grace to realize that this marathon, not a sprint.

Right.

So you have to just give yourself the grace to go through it at the pace that you need.

It's so, so hard to mom when your world's falling apart.

I Cannot, I cannot say that enough how hard that is to, to like you said, you know, still smile, still try to be present, still try to encourage them when you just want to fall apart and hide under the covers and you know, when you have littles at home, you just don't have that luxury and it's just really, really difficult.

So I think you've done, you know, an amazing job with getting handed this lemon.

And I think it's great that you're seeing a therapist.

I mean, you're doing all the things, you know, that you're going to need, you know, the tools in the toolbox, so to speak.

Right, right.

What advice would you give any other young moms that are going through recurrence or who are struggling right now?

Like, what are your thoughts on that?

It does get better.

I'm still in the trenches, but like, I can see the being in this organization of faith through fire and meeting other women that have come out on the other side, just seeing that it will get better and I will get there.

And listening to my kids, My nine year old says the most just beautiful things and I really just like listen to the simplicity of a child's heart and she can pull me out of those moments by just her words.

So just being present with your kids, even though it's hard and you know, explain to them what's happening to you, it's okay for them to see raw and real emotion.

I had a friend tell me that, you know, I talked about crying in front of my kids and she's like, michelle, suffering is.

Brings us closer to Jesus.

And you are, you will never be closer to Jesus than when you are suffering.

Think about the suffering that he had for us.

And I think about that when I'm in those moments and just telling my kids, you know, I'm having a hard time and it's okay.

And they're going to remember those moments, but they're also going to remember that mom came out of that and she's strong and I can be strong too.

That's great.

Yeah, I think that's great.

I agree with you.

I think our tendency is to want to shield our kids from suffering.

I know that was my tendency before cancer was to protect them from the hard things in life and to pretend like everything was okay when it wasn't, you know, putting my big girl pants on, so to speak.

But I think it's such a gift to show children what it looks like to suffer.

Well, it's not perfect, it's not easy, but it's a part of life.

And by doing that, you're giving them permission to suffer when they need to suffer.

And I think there's some freedom in that.

So we're always teaching our kids, even in the midst of the hardest things.

Before we close out, let's hear from our second sponsor.

Thrivent is a proud sponsor of Faith Through Fire.

Thrivent believes money is a tool and not a goal.

The Gateway Financial Group with Thrivent is local to the St. Louis area and can work with you to create a financial strategy that reflects your priorities and helps you protect the things that matter to you, like family and giving back.

Please call 314-783-4214 to schedule a free consultation with one of Thrivent's Gateway financial advisors.

All right, we're back.

Michelle, thank you much so, so much for sharing your story and being vulnerable.

I know it's been a really tough season.

You're still in that season.

You know that we're here for you and we're rooting you on, and I just think you're doing a remarkable job.

Thank you so much for sharing.

Thank you for having me on.

All right, until next time, guys.

See ya.

Thank you for being a listener of the Besties with Breasties podcast.

If this podcast had a positive impact on your journey, leave us a review or consider becoming a supporter.

You can donate with the link in the show notes or@faiththroughfire.org this episode was hosted by Sarah hall and Beth Wilmes.

Audio and production edits by Innovative frequencies.