S5E33: Confronting the Fear of Recurrence: A Survivor's Perspective

Welcome to the Besties with Breasties podcast.

Sarah hall here I am, a certified health and wellness coach, athletic trainer, mom, and breast cancer survivor.

I help women overcome their own mind drama to make mind shifts that open up the possibility for their most empowered and energetic life.

And I am Beth Wilmes, author, speaker, and founder of a human investment organization, otherwise known as a nonprofit called Faith Through Fire.

Our mission is to reduce the fear and anxiety that breast cancer patients feel and replace it with hope and a path toward thriving.

Podcast is about our experiences with breast.

Cancer and life after as young survivors and moms.

All right.

Hey.

Hey.

How's it going?

It's good.

It's good.

It's warm outside.

I know.

It is, like, sweltering hot.

Sweltering.

It's.

It's typical Missouri summer weather outside right now.

And I feel like normally we kind of podcast in the morning, but this is late afternoon, early evening.

Yeah.

Can I say that it's 3:30?

I mean, I feel like it's afternoon, not really.

Late, early evening.

What am I, 80?

What time do you go to bed after this?

I'm gonna go, you know, go eat my supper and then put myself to bed.

Okay, fine.

It's afternoon.

Yeah.

It's not quite bedtime yet.

Not quite.

Okay, well, today we're gonna talk about a topic that every single person listening is gonna relate to, and that is fear of recurrence.

Yep.

Is there anything you think that survivors think about more than recurrence after being a cancer patient?

No, I think this is at the top of the list.

Yeah.

And actually, it was really interesting timing because we have survivor mentors at Faith Through Fire.

Obviously, you know this.

But anyway, we had a new mentee come through that wanted a mentor, and I reached out to one of our mentors, and I was like, hey, she'd be a great match for you.

Same age, same cancer, same treatment plan.

And the mentor was like, oh, my gosh, I would love to, but I feel like I shouldn't take somebody on right now.

I had a recurrent scare back in May, and then just now, I had a lump show up on my cancer side.

I went in, and my doctors said that she doesn't think it's anything like.

She doesn't think it's a tumor.

She doesn't think it's fat necrosis either, though.

And so what they instructed her to do was to wait until February.

Oh, and if it grows, then they would biopsy it.

I do not like how they say that.

Like, I'm just gonna sit and wait.

And see what happens.

Yeah.

So she sent me that in a text, and I sent her a text back.

I was like, hey, you wanna hash this out?

Like, you want me to call you?

And then before I even waited for her response, I just called her.

Yeah.

I said, if you feel totally fine with waiting, then wait.

But I'm like, do you feel fine with waiting?

And she's like, no, I'm spiraling like crazy.

And she's like, I don't understand.

So we had to talk through it.

I had to tell her.

I was like, look, I think it's awesome your oncologist is not concerned.

If she was concerned that this was cancer, I think she'd be all over that biopsy.

I agree.

But I said, I also know the mental health aspect of what this feels like.

And I said, and it's perfectly okay.

I said, you do whatever you need to do.

I'm like, this phone call is simply to empower you to where if you mentally can't handle waiting until February, I just want somebody to tell you you're perfectly within your rights to ask for the biopsy now.

Right.

Well, that's like seven months away, so that's a really long time to have to think about that on, like, the daily basis to, like, not try to worry.

Right.

I think I mentioned it in a different podcast.

We also had a patient one time who she asked for a full body mri, and then they saw a little something on her brain, and then they wanted her to wait six or seven months, and she did, and it turned out to be nothing.

It was a birthmark.

Yeah.

And I think it's interesting.

It was a birthmark.

It's a birthmark.

Like, everybody's anatomy is different.

Yeah, that's.

And that's kind of why MRIs.

I don't like MRIs, because they just show so much.

Yeah.

Every person looks different.

Right.

And so now all of a sudden, something that's probably nothing, you know, they'll say something offhanded like, oh, well, there's this weird little spot, but we're not super worried.

Well, the minute a cancer patient hears that, good luck.

Right.

You know, I mean, it's.

It's very hard mentally.

So this.

This mentor that I was talking to, she's like, I think you're right.

I think I'm going to have to just go back.

But they.

People always worry about offending their doctor, but by, like, you know, pushing.

Yeah.

Because you want to be like, well, at least I wanted to always be the good patient.

She.

Jessica, she's Easy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's how I care.

Like, they really even care.

I mean, they do care, but I.

Mean, but I think this is the part that I want people to hear.

It's like you can assert yourself and ask for what you need to feel mentally, like, safe.

It doesn't make you mean, Right?

You can say it in a nice way, definitely.

And I know who her surgeon is.

And I said, I would be shocked if this woman, if you contacted her and said, hey, I just mentally can't wait that long.

Can we just biopsy it so I can have.

I can.

I told her, I said, then when you get the all clear, you get to enjoy the rest of your summer.

You get to enjoy Christmas, you get to enjoy the new year.

I said, all of that's at risk if you don't, you know.

So anyway.

So was she going to call the surgeon?

Yeah, she said, I think I'm going to go through my portal and just ask, you know, hey, can we get this done?

And I told her, I said, I don't think this surgeon's going to tell you no.

But I said, if she does, I said, somebody else will biopsy that for you.

Yeah.

I said, so just get it done if you want to get it done right.

And don't think twice about it.

So I just wanted to kind of give her permission to advocate for herself if that's what she wanted.

But that scenario, I can't even tell you how often that happens.

I mean, I feel like it happens all the time where people see things and they're like, oh, just wait six months.

Okay.

Like, in the meantime, I'm just over.

Here, like, freaking out, trying to live my life with an anvil over my head.

So today we're going to talk about fear of recurrence.

What it is, how common it is.

Yeah.

And what you can do about it.

But before we dive into all that, let's hear from our first sponsor.

Are you feeling scared, overwhelmed or lost post treatment?

Do you want to reclaim your life and thrive even better than before?

Breast cancer faith thru fire survivorship Bootcamp is designed for breast cancer survivors who are committed to living their fullest lives.

If you're ready to leap forward, seize personal growth and redefine your journey, this boot camp will provide the path you might benefit from.

Our boot camp.

The excitement of completing treatment has worn off, leaving you feeling unsure about your future.

You feel confused by your new post cancer identity and struggle to accept your, quote, new normal.

You want to enjoy life again but feel stuck in a Cycle of negative emotions or you feel disconnected from yourself, others, or God.

Our boot camp offers a structured roadmap that delves deep into four key areas created crucial for post cancer recovery and thriving.

Understanding trauma, cultivating a fighting spirit, managing anxiety and intrusive thoughts.

And redefining and reshaping your identity so you can rediscover your joy and purpose in life.

You can participate in person in St. Louis or online.

To join our wait list, visit faiththroughfire.org survivorship boot camp.

We're back.

Let's talk about what fear of cancer recurrence is actually like, defined as.

It's basically fear, worry or concern related to the possibility that cancer will come back or progress.

That's pretty, pretty straightforward.

What does fear of cancer recurrence feel like?

Like, what do you think it feels like mentally or in your body?

Like, how does it manifest for you?

I think it's more for me mentally like in my head.

Something that it will just like pop up every once in a while and I think that.

Like intrusive thoughts.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think it's like, you know, it's.

It's actually kind of like a mental mind game to like, keep those thoughts in their place and not let them overwhelm me or overcome our, our bodies.

How do you do that?

Like, how do you distract, do you distract yourself?

Because for me, that's what I try to do.

I distract myself.

I definitely think that distractions work.

I think for me it's more, it's for.

I think it's been more just facing them head on, like, what am I afraid of?

And then like thinking about all of the things that I do to kind of like keep my body in a healthy place and my immunity up so that if anything was off my body, I'm giving it the tools it needs to fight anything off.

So I think it's like, I think that's interesting.

So like, you don't run from those feelings like I do.

Yeah.

I mean, I think I have.

I'm not like.

I think it's just like, it's a work of art, like trying to manage this once you've had cancer.

It's hard.

It is hard.

Yeah.

Intrusive thoughts, catastrophizing, hyper vigilance to body changes.

I mean, anybody, anybody that gets a pain or an ache that they're not used to having.

I just started my period, but before that it happened, I knew that I was going to be starting my period soon, but when I got a lower backache, you know, you're just like, huh, I hope that's related to my period.

Well, I mean, it's.

For me, it surfaces in weird little things like that.

Yeah.

And I definitely think, like little aches and pains or something that you notice is off.

And sometimes I think it's really easy to like, kind of spiral with those thoughts and think, oh, is this something else that's going on more?

Is this like a cancer thing or is this like a, you know, whatever the issue is more isolated event.

But I think it's hard.

Did your doctor tell you the whole two week rule?

I think so.

I know, you've told me.

Yeah.

I actually found it helpful when she said it.

It was kind of traumatizing.

Yeah.

You know, which they're telling you information that she said, if you have a symptom that lasts longer than two weeks, call me.

And I was like, ooh, okay.

You know, but then like, so when you develop something weird, you know, like you've got this weird bump or your freaking big toe starts itching uncontrollably, you're like, okay, start the clock.

You know, and actually every time I've had something like a symptom show up that I'm not used to, I forget about it because I never make it to that two week mark.

You know what I mean?

I think that's a great strategy because you told me that a couple years ago and I've thought about that often.

Yeah.

When something kind of pops up, I'm like, okay, well, let's just wait like this and see what it is.

And you know, sometimes it's like, especially if it's like on my left side, which was my cancer side, it's like, okay, well, I do have scar tissue.

I had a lot of lymph nodes removed.

You know, it's like taking it back and like, simplifying.

Like, okay, there's.

I'm different.

My body is different than it was before.

There's a lot of trauma.

I mean, right, so you.

I do do that too.

I do tell myself, like, yeah, your body's traumatized.

Like, there's a lot of, you know, reaction to everything you put it through.

So, yeah, you know, I don't automatically jump to the cancer thing with that.

So cognitive, you know, fear of recurrence.

Physical is trouble sleeping, fatigue, tension headaches, panic symptoms.

So I've fielded a lot of calls with people who are panic stricken that their cancer's in their brain because they're getting headaches that they've never gotten before.

Yeah, but I'm always like, well, what kind of stress is going on in your life?

And nine times out of ten, they're tension headaches.

Right.

Actually, they're.

Every time I've dealt with a patient, it's been tension headaches.

Yeah.

And I am one of those people.

I've said this before in the podcast, that when I'm stressed, my body manifests itself physically.

Like, it will show up in one way, shape or form.

I just went.

I went camping this last weekend, and my sister was like, I think this is going to be so great for you because, you know, you've been under a lot of stress lately and this and that.

And I was like, yeah.

And it was great.

I felt very relaxed the whole time.

But just because I feel relaxed, I feel like my body is sometimes contrary to that because I broke out in this crazy rash.

Oh, no.

I have no idea what caused it.

And I'm almost convinced the stress, I.

Mean, I'm sure it is.

Do you get stress rashes?

Like, do stress rashes happen?

Yes, I do.

Last summer, I. I think I had, like a little batch of shingles.

And I think it was around my birthday because I was diagnosed with breast cancer one week before my 40th birthday.

And so I've had this thing with my birthday and it was like, coming.

It was actually, I think it was on my birthday that this rash popped up.

Isn't that crazy?

Yeah.

I mean, I'm just, like, amazed by that.

Body keeps the score.

It does keep the score.

Who, who's the author for that?

It's Vander Cook or something like that.

I can't remember.

No, that's the murderer.

That's the guy that killed Natalie Holloway.

We don't want to talk to him.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

So I broke out in this rash and my sister's like, what did you eat?

Did you touch anything?

Did you get into poison ivy?

I'm like, I'm not allergic to poison ivy or poison oak.

I've never had it in my life.

And everybody was watching when I was eating.

My sister's like, is your throat closing up?

I'm like, I'm fine.

But I had this crazy rash.

And it lasted four days.

It's finally going away.

Oh, my goodness.

And I really think it's stress.

And I'm just like, definitely.

So anyway, physical symptoms can emerge when you're feeling stressed out.

Behavioral changes, avoiding follow ups with your doctor.

I am an avoidance person.

I tend to just avoid the things I don't want to deal with.

A lot of People do that.

Or the opposite of that is people will overuse medical.

Yep.

They're getting a scan constantly.

You know, I'll talk to people.

They're like, oh, I'm, you know, I don't know, it just seems insane to me.

They're like, I'm going to my OB GYN and then I'm getting my colonoscopy and then I'm getting an MRI scan and then it just like.

But it feels like hyper vigilance.

It doesn't feel like just self care and keeping up with things.

I mean, I think it's hard to balance, you know, when these things come up behaviorally.

Like, I mean, there's lots of different ways that it can come up with.

Oh yeah, going to the doctor or could be even just like your self care routine, like being like having all of these things that you have to do.

Yeah, well, you're right.

Like you brought up triggers, Right.

Like your birthday.

There's so many things that trigger people with their fear of recurrence.

It's like follow up scans, anniversaries or birthdays.

If it happened around the time that they got diagnosed, hearing about somebody else's recurrence is very triggering for people.

That can be really hard for people.

Yeah.

You know, if you have somebody you care about that suffered a recurrence, you know, it just starts to feel like, oh my gosh, this is gonna happen to me and I don't want it to happen to anybody else I care about.

And it can be really triggering.

And so, yeah, it's just, it's just part.

Unfortunately, I don't think that there's a cure for this, this fear of cancer recurrence.

Yeah, I don't think there is either, but I do think that it changes over time.

You know, like, I felt like looking back, I'm.

I'm four years out from being diagnosed and like the first year was all about, you know, getting through the treatment.

But then after that, that next year was really difficult with the fear feeling.

But as, as you get further and further out and more days in between and months and years, I do think it's easier to manage in your head because you've made it this far.

And I mean, it's just like what they say about, you know, time heals all wounds.

It's just, you know, the more time you have for positive things.

Right.

The smaller the negative things get.

Right.

So I want to ask you, we're going to talk a little bit about how common is fear of recurrence.

Do you Have a guess as to how many breast cancer survivors report some degree of fear of recurrence?

I would think every single one of them would.

I know, 100.

I.

That's.

I was gonna say.

So they reported that it's 70.

And I'm calling on that.

Yeah, there's no way I'm calling on that.

That's why I wonder about these studies, because I'm like, it's a hundred percent.

Every single person that goes through something traumatic like this, it ha.

It's there.

It's there.

And so I'm like, where's this 30% who's just like, la de da.

No big deal?

Yeah, I don't believe it.

Yeah, I don't know.

I do not believe that either.

No.

So what percentage of people would you expect experience moderate to severe levels that, like, affect their daily life?

I would say probably like 50%.

It's a little lower according to them.

30, but I would argue same thing.

I think it's higher.

I feel like it is higher because I feel like I. I mean, I've always had, like.

I feel like a.

Well, I say this, but I actually don't know if I agree with it, but I feel like I've had a pretty good head, like, mentally, like, tougher, but it still can be so overwhelming.

And it's just like, oh, it's.

Especially when you're around if you know somebody that's going through a reoccurrence or if you, like, hear about somebody else that gets diagnosed.

I know that when I was first, like, one year out, somebody that I work with was diagnosed with a different type of cancer.

And that was really hard for me because I just knew what she was going to have to go through.

So it was hard mentally for me.

And then I'm worried, you know, it's just hard.

I feel like moderate anxiety has to be more than around 50, maybe even more.

I may have told this story before, but I will never forget it, because when I first started Faith Through Fire and I started calling on oncology nurses, this one oncology nurse was like, yeah, I just had a patient in today, and, you know, she comes to my survivorship clinic, and she is just, you know, she's been in remission now for seven years.

And she's like.

And she is just a hot mess emotionally about this diagnosis.

And she's like, she's doing great.

I do not understand what the problem is.

And I'm like, oh, my God, like, seven years feels like yesterday sometimes.

You know, I'm nine years out And I sometimes feel like it just happened.

I mean, I definitely feel that way too.

I feel like it was just yesterday.

But then when I think back, I'm like, I feel like I've lived nine lives between then and now, you know, because it's like such.

There's been so much that's happened.

It's like when little kids have a trauma and it's like they had to grow up so fast.

And I'm like, I feel like I had to grow up so fast.

You know, getting diagnosed at 35, I'm like, I wanted to be oblivious for another 20, 30 years before, you know.

Well, and I think that, that the, like being oblivious, like, I feel like I've always been very naive.

And you can maintain that mentality until something happens to you like this, like a breast cancer diagnosis.

And so now my.

I'm not naive anymore.

And so it's like, you know that bad things happen to good people and you don't really have any control over it.

Yeah.

So I want to talk about how we can manage this fear of occurrence.

But before we do that, you want to do Boobs in the News.

Of course.

All right, let's do it.

Boobs in the News is a fun segment where we read funny tweets by real people or ridiculous news stories.

Boobs in the news.

Bibs in the news.

Boobs in the news.

All right, I'm excited about this.

You pulled this boob.

So I have no idea what it is.

I did and I was a little nervous looking, but I think I found a good one.

Okay, what is it?

All right, so here's the headline.

Okay.

Missing drunk man spent hours helping a search party that was looking for himself.

No.

Is now.

Isn't that hilarious?

Wouldn't you think?

The first thing you'd ask is, what's the name of the person we're looking for?

Apparently he was.

He was out of it.

What's the context?

How long was he missing for?

It doesn't say how long, but it had to be have been long enough that there was a search party.

Right.

So it says this bizarre event occurred in Turkey in 2021.

A 50 year old man named Behon Mutula went missing after drinking with his friends.

His friends reported him missing when he wandered off into a forest.

Oh.

A search party, including rescue teams and volunteers was organized to find it.

Well, what happened?

While the search was ongoing, Mula unknowingly joined the group of volunteers helping to look for the missing person.

Stop.

Yes, in the forest.

When you think the search Party comes across a Turkish man in the forest.

And you're like, what's your name?

Right.

Like, maybe you're who we're looking for.

Maybe.

I mean, I can't imagine people are just hanging out in the forest.

I. I mean, I guess it happened, but it says it wasn't until the group started shouting his name repeatedly that he realized they were looking for him.

There it is.

And then he's like, hold on.

I am here.

I am here.

I am here.

And it ended the search with relief and amusement.

Do you think that there's, like, a penalty if you like, if.

If they create a search party for you and you.

They find out you're just drunk and not.

And not hurt or harmed?

I feel like there should be.

It's kind of like if you call 911 and there's not an emergency, I.

Feel like there should be a penalty.

Like a copay.

Right?

Exactly.

Like, there should be some sort of fine.

Unless you're, like, trapped and hurt.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's definitely the boob.

I don't know if the boob, though, is the search party for not recognizing that this stranger in the woods might be the person they're looking for.

Yeah.

I also just wonder, like, you know, when they do these search parties, are they just, like, recruiting everyday citizens?

Yeah.

I don't know.

Or is it, like.

I would think so.

Like, family, friends, mutual friends that want to help?

Because I feel like the police would be smarter than this.

I mean, you would think that they would at least.

I mean, before you just jump in, you would figure out who you're searching for.

I feel like there would be more method to the madness.

I mean, can you just imagine, like, walking in the forest, like you're on a hike and you're, like, looking for somebody, and you're like, well, who are.

You don't even know who you're looking for.

I'm saying, like, if I just want to maybe.

I don't know.

So many questions.

So many questions.

So many questions.

Either way, that man is the boob.

And the search party might be a little bit of a boob, too.

So there you go.

There's your boobs.

There's your boobs.

Boobs.

And then it's bibs and the news bibs.

All right, and we're back.

Let's talk about how we can manage the fear of recurrence.

Well, you talked about it.

You kind of confront it head on.

And obviously, like, fear is a natural response in the unknown.

And I think in particular for us because like you said, once it's happened, you know, it can happen again.

Yeah.

And so I think a lot of us are like, well, I just have to always stay on alert and be in control and be prepared.

And I think the logic is, like, if I worry hard enough, maybe I can prevent it.

But it's, like, not true.

And so here's the truth.

We're sitting here obsessing about something that we have no control over.

And how healthy is that?

That can't be good.

I mean, not healthy at all.

That reminds me of a book by Brene Brown.

I'm drawing a blank on the title, but it's a really popular book where she talks about all the emotions and, like, goes through and explains them.

There was a story in her book that talked about a man who was always worried that his wife was going to, like, get hit by a car.

And he spent, like, I think that it was hit by a car or in a car accident or something along those lines.

And he spends all of this time worrying about his wife and, like, all these, like, days and hours and hours.

And then she did pass away in a car accident or getting hit by a car.

And he, like, says, well, I spent all this time worrying about it.

And me worrying about it did not help me at all when it actually did happen.

So it's like, it was just like, live in the moment.

If you worry about it, it's not gonna make it easier if anything were to happen and you're robbing yourself of all of the time in betweens.

He was like, I had all of these hours and days and years with my wife when she was living.

And, yeah, he didn't enjoy it.

He didn't get to enjoy it.

Cause he was so worried about something bad happening to her.

Yeah.

I mean, I think fear is normal and can be slightly protective.

But if you're experiencing, like, high levels of anxiety and fear all the time, then it might require some additional support, you know?

Yeah, I. I'm a big fan of therapy.

I'm on the record for saying that, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy or other forms of therapy.

It's like if you can't get yourself out of the rut and you just keep ruminating.

Right.

All the time, that's just so mentally exhausting.

And quite frankly, that's not good for your health.

Right.

Well, because it increases your stress cortisol.

You can't sleep, you're not enjoying the moment.

Yeah.

All those things are physical things that you need to monitor and make sure you're doing well, you know, to keep your immunity up to your point.

So if you're constantly obsessing about what could go wrong, you know, then maybe you enlist a professional mindfulness based stress.

Stress reduction.

I don't know how good I am at mindfulness.

I try.

It's hard.

It is hard.

I definitely think that I have gotten so much better.

I used to, like, I used to kind of just like, be like, mindfulness, like, who?

I don't need to do that.

But it wasn't really until I went through breast cancer and I realized, well, I need to, like, calm down.

I need to, like, refocus.

It really is good to kind of make sure that my parasympathetic is a parasympathetic or parasympathetic.

The parasympathetic is.

Parasympathetic is activated.

Right.

And I'm not always in fight, fight, fight.

Which for me, it's not so much mindfulness.

It's like breath work.

Like, breath work is really helpful for me to like, I love breath.

I love breath work.

It's really hard to make yourself do it, but there's so many apps now that you can just pop one on.

There are, you know, so that's like an easy way to regulate your nervous system.

And you can literally feel your body calming down when you breathe properly.

Yes.

I'm like a shallow breather.

I just love, like, I like when I, like, lay down on my back and I can feel like, the air go into my lungs and the air go out.

It's very grounding, you know, it just kind of brings me back to my center.

If you're like, your thoughts are spiraling, that is like one of the things I immediately start doing every single morning before I go to work is breath work.

Breath work.

And it could literally be five minutes.

It doesn't have to be like, this long.

It does not take long.

No, like breathing, I mean, I can do like two rounds of box breathing and be good.

Yep.

And I just learned a different strategy with breathing.

Two, two seconds in, holding for two seconds and then breathing out for six.

But when you're breathing out for six, the first three seconds you say let, and then the last three seconds you say go.

And if you do that like three or four or five times, you can just like, sense your body, like, calming down.

So I, I, I've started doing that just the last couple days.

I heard her on a podcast.

It's like a positive affirmation.

Yeah.

And then it's like, also, like, letting go of that Fear or anxiety or whatever negative thought that you're having, letting it go, and then you just.

I like it.

Keep doing that a few times.

Yeah, that's really good.

Yeah.

I think both you and I think peer support's important, like with other survivors.

Well, that is what is so amazing about Faith Through Fire is having, like, the support of a mentor and being able to communicate and talk to somebody else that's walked the same shoes as.

As you have.

Yeah.

It's.

It's interesting how we can all be from different backgrounds and have different thing beliefs and all these things, but it's like the one thing I always.

It makes me think of when I was a smoker.

I don't like admitting that I smoked when I was younger.

If you were ever a smoker, if you're listening to this, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

But I'm like, you could go stand outside in the cold and be smoking with a complete stranger, and by the end of that cigarette, you're best friends.

Yep.

It's like that shared misery, it bonded you.

Yeah.

Shared misery of the cold weather and the.

The wonderful inhale of the carcinogenic smoke.

It was just.

There was just something about it that brought you together, and it's like, you know, it's no different with any other difficult situation when somebody has been through something similar to you.

There's just that instant bond there, and they get it.

Yep.

And I. I do find that when you meet somebody else that's been through breast cancer, you.

It's like you're on the same level.

And that there.

It's just like a very, like, different kind of friendship.

You don't have to say anything.

No.

Because you just understand.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We'll have.

A lot of times our mentors will be like, my mentee and I don't even talk that much about breast cancer.

And I'm like, it's because they know that you know.

Right.

And that's enough.

Right.

You know, so that you can have other things you talk about.

It's fine.

But they also know that if they need you, you're there and you get it.

Right.

We just had a woman that requested a mentor, and she was talking about how much support she has.

She's like, I have got an insane amount of support in a loving family and all these people.

And she's like.

And yet I'm just feeling like I need somebody who gets it.

Yeah.

So it's a real thing.

So the peer support's important, you know, and a lot of people find comfort in having structured follow up care plans, you know, with your doctor.

So if you're experiencing anxiety, just map out a plan with your doctor.

You know, that gives people a lot of comfort.

I will take a moment to plug the boot camp too.

Like we have our survivorship boot camps.

A lot of people struggle with fear of recurrence once they transition into survivorship after active or primary treatments done.

And we have an online self guided bootcamp on the website that you can go through at your own pace.

You can access the modules anytime you want.

You have lifetime access.

So if that sounds like something that might be helpful to you, go to faiththroughfire.org and look for the bootcamp.

I think it's under resources.

But before we sum everything up and give final words, let's hear from our second sponsor.

Thrivent is a proud sponsor of Faith through Fire.

Thrivent believes money is a tool and not a goal.

The Gateway financial group with Thrivent is local to the St. Louis area and can work with you to create a financial strategy that reflects your your priorities and helps you protect the things that matter to you, like family and giving back.

Please call 314-783-4214 to schedule a free consultation with one of Thrivent's gateway financial advisors.

Okay, final words.

What do you want people to know that are listening?

I think the first thing is it's normal to be fearful, but it's what you do with it and how you handle it that can either cripple you or it can kind of set you on the path towards thriving.

Right.

Resiliency.

Right.

You got to build that muscle.

Yeah.

And it is, it does have to be worked out.

That muscle.

Yeah.

It's not going to instantaneously happen.

It's like you kind of, what you said, you have to confront it every single time it happens and just really tell yourself, is this something that I should really be fearful about or is this my mind, you know, taking me to a place I don't need to go?

Right.

So, you know, maybe instead of asking what if it comes back, try asking what's good today?

You know, what strength.

I love that.

Like, you know, just be present in the moment that, that second, you know, because you're always thinking like, what if, what if, what if?

That's all future based.

It's like, what's good today?

What strength have I already shown?

You know, if I knew that I was okay for just today, what would I do?

What would today look like for me?

So I think the shift doesn't really deny fear.

It acknowledges it, but then basically says, hey, you're not in charge.

Right, Right.

I'm in charge.

Yep.

So I hope that's helpful.

Thanks for being with us guys.

And until next time, see ya.

Thank you for being a listener of the Besties with Breasties podcast.

If this podcast had a positive impact on your journey, leave us a review or consider becoming a supporter.

You can donate with the link in the show notes or@faiththroughfire.org this episode was hosted by Sarah hall and Beth Wilmes.

Audio and production edits by In Innovative Frequencies.